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TheAffiliate7
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 14
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| Where's the style gone in games? |
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Is there anyone out there like me who agrees that games like Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights are just full of hype?
Sure, they've got acceptable graphics and some depth, but if you strip away those things what have you got? A Hollywood-version game: nothing but show.
What happened to the "good ol' days" of games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment (by the way developers: the Infinity engine does RPG's much more justice than the best 3D engine ever could hope for) or the classic "point-and-click" games like Diablo...games where some actual storyline and voice acting were what counted.
I don't shop around too much for games 'cause I'm only running off of a 1 Ghz Processor, but that's enough to see that even Gothic II (cool towns, crap everything else) is nothing but a corporate grab for cash.
Am I alone in my sentiments???
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I hear they bake yummy cakes in China |
Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:34 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
Well, IMO the trend towards pretty but empty games is evident in our modern entertainment industry (the same goes for movies etc.); games are getting shorter and easier nowadays, true, but as for your examples... well... that's all about taste.
I for my part liked Morrowind, Gothic II and Planescape: Torment a lot, but I didn't like the Baldur's Gate games and NWN at all, for example. I guess it depends on what you expect from a CRPG. Personally I don't expect parties, tiny critters for characters, and round-based combat, because my No. 1 concern with all types of games is immersion... and how am I supposed to be immersed when all I can do is watch antsy little guys from high above? That's not role-playing for me... that's table-top gaming.
The few exceptions to this rule were PS:T because I always liked the Planescape setting, plus I found the story compelling, and Jagged Alliance 2 because it had the best set of characters and the best NPC interaction of all the games I played IMO.
In short: no Infinity engine games for me, please. Only 3D and first person, if possible. And please... a gripping atmosphere. That's all I demand.
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Jaz |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:02 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Diablo has great story=gaming faux pas?
I enjoy immenion from good dialogue, environment and plotlines, not looking into my characters blocky back, while listening to uninspiring voiceactors.
That's what I like about BIS-games, since they give you a good overview of the nicely done environmentals setting, instead of forcing you to trying to direct around some annoying back-camera, sometimes giving you unwanted inspections of close walls and such. |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:20 pm |
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Beliarsclew
Victim Of The Greed
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 581
Location: Jordan-Middle East |
I think that maybe there's more guys who think the same!
But am not with you with your words about gothic...It's very nice!
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<Sigh>.Time.Passes.Quickly. </Sigh>
Last edited by Beliarsclew on Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:55 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:42 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
I agree, the camera in third person games can get on your nerves at times. The only 3rd person game that ever got it right (i.e., the body never got in the way of visibility, not once) was Heretic II (not a CRPG, though).
There's no back camera in first person view, however, which is my personal favorite method of gaming.
The only mini-birdy-view game type I really like is real-time strategy - there the cliché dialogue usually takes place in the FMVs, not the game itself, so it doesn't distract from the gaming experience ^_^.
As for the decrease in gaming time that's becoming more and more apparent, it's been a trend from the start. An Infocom text adventure, for example, gave you a whole lot of gaming for your money; nowadays an average game lasts a few days. Which doesn't mean it's bad - it's just shorter.
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Jaz |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:16 pm |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
I'm not sure how old you are, but my idea of the "good old days" go waay before Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment.
A few of the games that shaped my tastes and expectations: Ultima V-VII, Wasteland, Starflight, System Shock, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry 7...
I do think games with style , content and *fun* are getting harder to find - but they are out there. Examples: Deus Ex, M&M VI, Gothic(s), Wizardry 8, Jagged Alliance 2, Thief series, even Baldur's Gate *2*.
I said I was going to stop commenting when PS:T gets underserved accolades, but I can't resist this time.
The total love-fest that many have of this game really leaves me scratching my head.
Torment, IMHO, is a poor example of a "computer game". All of its accolades stem from the above-average writing and deep (welll -- imho, pretentious) characters. I'll take a standard hack-n-slash dungeon romp with fun combat and lots of items over a game that offers good writing, but mediocre everything else.
Again, I guess this is largely a matter taste. I'm not saying PS:T sucks, but it is sooo NOT the gaming nirvana that many make it out to be.
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:46 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
I agree, the camera in third person games can get on your nerves at times. The only 3rd person game that ever got it right (i.e., the body never got in the way of visibility, not once) was Heretic II (not a CRPG, though).
Really? I could've sworn...
quote:
The total love-fest that many have of this game really leaves me scratching my head.
Torment, IMHO, is a poor example of a "computer game". All of its accolades stem from the above-average writing and deep (welll -- imho, pretentious) characters. I'll take a standard hack-n-slash dungeon romp with fun combat and lots of items over a game that offers good writing, but mediocre everything else.
So according to you Diablo > Torment?
Seriously, why shouldn't it recieve praise for it's original setting and plotline? Why shouldn't it recieve praise for being innovative and replayable with several different endings and story-twists?
Sure, combat could've been better, but the game never was about that anyway.
I think you have to look at where the focus lies, which is at dialogue, which some people are looking for in an RPG, and which PS:T delivers quite excellently, in the midst of combat oriented RPG (except for Baldur's Gate, which delivers both dialogue and combat excellently).
Why do people give undeserved accolades to System Shock? IMO, it's not even an RPG. Pure Doom FPS. Same with Thief series. |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:05 pm |
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X-dANGEr
Unknown Destiny
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 2383
Location: The X place |
I also agree with the author of this topic, his words are right, Morrowind and Neverwinter nights don't have that style, but i also disagree him about the gothic thing, gothic has a pretty dialoge unlike morrowind(very long).
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:15 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
| Re: Where's the style gone in games? |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheAffiliate7
IWhat happened to the "good ol' days" of games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment
Good old?!?! days?
Those are pretty recent games. I feel realy old now...
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:00 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
 Chekote, most of us are old geezers. I did at least mention the Infocom adventures!
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Jaz |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:10 pm |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
Well, balance has been restored. Jaz made me feel really young when she mentioned the Infocom text adventures... I had to pause for a moment just to realize what those were. 
I've only tried a few but I get frustrated easily by not knowing the words it wants. It sort of reminds me of the way EQ was (I'm not sure if it still is this way) where you try to get a quest:
NPC: Will you take this scroll to [generic NPC]?
ME: I'll take the scroll to [generic NPC]
ME: I'll take the scroll
ME: Give me the scroll
ME: scroll
ME: What about scroll
NPC: here is the scroll.
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If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:33 pm |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaz
Chekote, most of us are old geezers. I did at least mention the Infocom adventures!
Ahh yes... Leather Goddesses of Phobos, BorderZone, Infidel.. those were the days.
Hey Jaz, do you remember those old text/graphical adventures from Telarium? They were available on the Apple II. I only played "Rendezvous with Rama" (based on the A.C. Clarke book), but I recall they also had "Nine Princes of Amber" and Chricton's "Amazon".
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:43 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
Never had an Apple, sorry! By the way, there was an Infocom Zork pack for palmtops. I replayed the first one during boring meetings...
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Jaz |
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Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:32 am |
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TheAffiliate7
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 14
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quote:
Originally posted by X-dANGEr
but i also disagree him about the gothic thing, gothic has a pretty dialoge unlike morrowind(very long).
Okay, I MAY have been slightly off about GOthic II in that it does offer a solid front... I just don't like the interface and how you don't create your character before you start (one of my fav. parts in an RPG)
Admittedly though, the pre-game character creation is usually limited to AD&D games, so I've got to give GII props for not being a copycat...
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I hear they bake yummy cakes in China |
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Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:00 pm |
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kriksa
Baron of the Court
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 328
Location: Estonia |
I dont agree from the gothic part, i just love the freedom and the npc personalitys are great
the problem with point-and-click games is, that theyre like clones, youve played one of em, youve played em all
i agree about NWN, cause i hate that game
never played Morrowind though, mostly cause im getting tired of all that dwarves, elves and stuff like that crap, i want humans, humans and maybe some orcs |
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Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:58 am |
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