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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Thief: Deadly Shadows - Review @ Filefront |
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Filefront is the latest site to post a <a href="http://articles.filefront.com/80" target="_blank">review</a> of 'Thief: Deadly Shadows'. This one carries the lowest score I have seen at 3/5 but before you exclaim "Aha! I *knew* it wasn't that good", this snip demonstrates the reviewer's perspective:<blockquote><em>I do realize that the point of the game isn't to kill your way through missions; but since this game, along with others from Ion Storm (Deus Ex 1 and 2 come to mind), have put such a heavy emphasis on letting the player dictate his playing style, I was surprised how little Thief 3 leaves in the hands of the player. You can choose which faction you want to be loyal to, and who you steal from in terms of non-essential characters… But that's really about the limit the player has in terms of choices. You can still kill your way through missions, but it's obviously something the game does not want you to do, which is disappointing. I constantly found myself wishing I could be playing Splinter Cell, which truly let's you decide if you want to take a violent or a stealthy course of action, and either option will end up working.</em></blockquote> |
Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:16 pm |
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Majnun
Village Leader
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 89
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So he disliked it because it was a Thief game instead of Splinter Cell. Odd that I would give it a 4 or 4.5 out of 5 stars for the exact same reason he was annoyed by it. I guess he wouldn't like Thief DP or Thief 2 much at all since going all "Sam Fisher" and gunning the enemies down is even LESS of an option in those game. God I love game reviewers...
The game's far from perfect, and the other 2 in the series are better, but it's still Thief and it's still a great game. |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:22 pm |
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Guest
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Greater freedom ala-DX certainly would've been nice, but as it is, I think the game is quite excellent; far more deserving of a better score than 3/5. |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:30 pm |
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Wolfgarou
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 29 May 2003
Posts: 163
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I guess it deserves more than 3/5 but then in some ways, I don't feel that T3 deserves anything above 4. Maybe 3.5 will do. If T3 came out 2 years ago, I would gladly give it a full 5/5 but times change. SC and to some extent, Far Cry did the stealth gameplay way better and T3 just feels too much like a consolized version of T2. To add insult, T3 is soooo unpolished. Feels like it was rushed out so that Eidos can close down Ion Storm.
And to the reviewers credit (not that he was VERY accurate), SC is a tad bit more open-ended on the decisions. I finished it without guns, except for some scripted events. Now I'm using all the SC tricks in T3 again. Lure somebody, wait for them to turn around, knock them out, hide body....repeat... 
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The world is small, nasty and complicated, and everybody dies alone... - Sam Fisher |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:48 pm |
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Dwango
Head Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 68
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Ahhh, but thats the rub, this is NOT SplinterCell!
The point of this game, that many people do not get, is you are not supposed to ever be seen. You shouldn't have to draw a person out to knock them out. They are never supposed to know you were there. If you kill or knock out anyone, you should feel like you failed, you should ask if there was a way to avoid that one person.
It is the disservice what games like Splinter Cell have done to stealth gameplay. Many players have learned to use stealth to snipe everyone in the game. Not really much different than the old Doom mentality of gotta kill them all. I want game-play to allow me to be a complete ghost, not like the so-called "stealth" games where you end up having to kill a few people to solve a mission. I want to be rewarded for smartly avoiding an enemy, unlike many so-called "stealth" games.
And before someone says there should be both in a game, I remind you there are pleny of FPS style and stealth killers out there. Why can't there be one trully stealth game without being punished by all the trigger happy shooters out there. Thief is well known to be a pure stealth game. It should be judged as such and not demerited for it.
_________________
Ha, Ha, Ha.... Oh, you were SERIOUS?
-Dwango |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:20 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Dwango
I want to be rewarded for smartly avoiding an enemy, unlike many so-called "stealth" games.
And before someone says there should be both in a game, I remind you there are pleny of FPS style and stealth killers out there. Why can't there be one trully stealth game without being punished by all the trigger happy shooters out there.
But there IS no reason a game can't cater to either play style. As long as the game caters to your play style, there's no need to exclude other play styles; that would be silly from either a common sense or marketing perspective. Games don't necessarily have to sacrifice one play style for another. |
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Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:32 pm |
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Guest
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That reviewer is a moron. In Thief, you play a Thief. This is not some garbage run and gun Splinter Cell crap game or a pile crap Tenchu clone. If you want that, PLAY CRAP SPLINTER CELL or TENCHU. The reason it doesnt offer you that is because its a different game. Ya, I guess going by that guys reasoning, THERE IS NO REASON WHY IT DOESNT HAVE CARD COLLECTING ELEMENTS! WHY DOESNT IT HAVE IT?!?! ALSO, WHY DONT I HAVE A BFG WITH L33T PIPE BOMMBS! WHY IS A THIEF GAME ABOUT STEALTH? WHY DOESNT IT SUBVERT STEALTHPLAY AND MAKE THOUGHTLESS GAMING VIABLE?!?! THIEF IZ STOOPIDz!!!!!1111!1!oneoneone. People these days are morons, I swear. |
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Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:19 am |
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Guest
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There is a reason stealth exists: direct engagement tactics are less attractive than a silent kill. Supporting "Onimusha" or even "Tenchu"-like gameplay would have seriously hurt this title because it would have not have been a Thief game. Frankly, in any serious stealth title, run and gun should ALWAYS be FAR less viable than stealth. This game just has the balls to do it right. If you don't have the patiences, here are some tips: 1) play on a wimpy difficulty; patient players shouldnt be penalized because those with ADD want to game too 2) play a different game; every game doesnt have to be everything to everyone; just as there are "pure" action titles that people giving raving reviews about (like Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, etc) there can be "pure" stealth titles as well 3) learn to be patient. |
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Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:28 am |
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Burack
Guest
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T3 is a great game!!! Sure, in some ways it could be better, but it is great and fun nonetheless.
Why do I have to play a braindead terminator in all these shooters? Why can't I interact with the world and the people? Those FPS should be like that. I should be able to negotiate out of any violent situation. Heck, why don't all FPS take into consideration that I want to use swords or lightsabers and they should give me the option to play in a medieval fantasy world or a science fiction one with many planets. Sheesh.
In T3, you play as a thief. Period. I buy it because you don't run around shooting everything. Those games don't do anything for me. The only action game I own are some Star Wars. If you could just blast your way out of every situation, then it would be a stupid, stupid game. Heck, I rather like blackjacking unsuspecting bytes of data and hiding in the shadows and shooting someone in the head or chest with one shot. Now, that is fun!!! |
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Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:35 am |
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Wolfgarou
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 29 May 2003
Posts: 163
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But there IS no reason a game can't cater to either play style. As long as the game caters to your play style, there's no need to exclude other play styles; that would be silly from either a common sense or marketing perspective. Games don't necessarily have to sacrifice one play style for another.
Totally agree with you.
PS - You can't run-and-gun in SC. And knocking out a guard in SC is equivalent to blackjacking in Thief. Nuff said 
_________________
The world is small, nasty and complicated, and everybody dies alone... - Sam Fisher |
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Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:36 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But there IS no reason a game can't cater to either play style. As long as the game caters to your play style, there's no need to exclude other play styles; that would be silly from either a common sense or marketing perspective. Games don't necessarily have to sacrifice one play style for another.
I don't agree with you. This is not common sense. This the same marketing crap that made a game like Deus Ex 2 end up being less than the sum of its parts. The same thinking that led to the downfall of Interplay.
Making a game that appeals to all people in all ways is foolish. You end up with a mediocre game that no-one likes. And don't think resources don't get wasted because they try to do this. Many a developer gets spread thin trying to come up with three or four solutions to a problem, none of which get the time each deserves. Not to mention all the added QA time, beta time, etc, all on a limited budget.
The problem with the industry is it needs to realize that catering to the niche can sell. You don't have to get everyone in the world to by your game. In fact, an intelligent game like thief appeals to a more sophisticated audience who is willing to part with 50 bucks to play a game that is less kill em all and more thoughtful, slow, and careful.
I only rant on this because I've been seeing more watered down junk lately from the gaming industry, and more of this "genius" marketing to grab a massive market. I'm not the average gamer. I deserve to get a quality product that challenges my abilities and my mind. And I have the cash to pay for it. That is the kind of consumer the game companies should want. |
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Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:22 am |
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Dwango
Head Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 68
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That last post was mine.
_________________
Ha, Ha, Ha.... Oh, you were SERIOUS?
-Dwango |
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Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:26 am |
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Wolfgarou
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 29 May 2003
Posts: 163
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Making a game that appeals to all people in all ways is foolish. You end up with a mediocre game that no-one likes. And don't think resources don't get wasted because they try to do this. Many a developer gets spread thin trying to come up with three or four solutions to a problem, none of which get the time each deserves. Not to mention all the added QA time, beta time, etc, all on a limited budget.
Err...I'm not going to refer to T3 specifically, but didn't the original DX catered to all gameplay types and was heralded as one of the best games ever? And weren't you guys complaining how limited the options in DX IW was?
Btw, playing a niche game doesn't make a person more intelligent or dumb in any way. I'm kinda dumb and still playing niche games like Ghost Recon and F1 sims. A game is still a game 
quote:
You don't have to get everyone in the world to by your game.
Then you won't get your game because nobody will fund the project
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The world is small, nasty and complicated, and everybody dies alone... - Sam Fisher |
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Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:57 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgarou
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Making a game that appeals to all people in all ways is foolish. You end up with a mediocre game that no-one likes. And don't think resources don't get wasted because they try to do this. Many a developer gets spread thin trying to come up with three or four solutions to a problem, none of which get the time each deserves. Not to mention all the added QA time, beta time, etc, all on a limited budget.
Err...I'm not going to refer to T3 specifically, but didn't the original DX catered to all gameplay types and was heralded as one of the best games ever? And weren't you guys complaining how limited the options in DX IW was?
It is probably the RPG’s strength where we can enjoy tailor-made game-play by customizing our characters. Whereas, Thief is dedicated to stealth type of character, where there is no customization is allowed, which is O.K. as long as the game-play itself still has various options in detail (knock-down, kill, silent-kill, luring into a trap, by-pass by climbing, distract, move-swiftly, carefully, or just leave the place and coming back?).
I think Deus EX: IW did make a mistake by mixing everything than giving choices to the players like its predecessor but Thief seems not to have made the mistake and lost its identity by taking its own way. |
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Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:05 pm |
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guest
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
But there IS no reason a game can't cater to either play style. As long as the game caters to your play style, there's no need to exclude other play styles; that would be silly from either a common sense or marketing perspective. Games don't necessarily have to sacrifice one play style for another.
I don't agree with you. This is not common sense. This the same marketing crap that made a game like Deus Ex 2 end up being less than the sum of its parts. The same thinking that led to the downfall of Interplay.
Making a game that appeals to all people in all ways is foolish. You end up with a mediocre game that no-one likes. And don't think resources don't get wasted because they try to do this. Many a developer gets spread thin trying to come up with three or four solutions to a problem, none of which get the time each deserves. Not to mention all the added QA time, beta time, etc, all on a limited budget.
The problem with the industry is it needs to realize that catering to the niche can sell. You don't have to get everyone in the world to by your game. In fact, an intelligent game like thief appeals to a more sophisticated audience who is willing to part with 50 bucks to play a game that is less kill em all and more thoughtful, slow, and careful.
I only rant on this because I've been seeing more watered down junk lately from the gaming industry, and more of this "genius" marketing to grab a massive market. I'm not the average gamer. I deserve to get a quality product that challenges my abilities and my mind. And I have the cash to pay for it. That is the kind of consumer the game companies should want.
I agree, this game is also about storyline and atomosphere, which many games seem to be lacking these days. The ambient sounds in T3, when listened to whilst wearing head phones, are brilliant and set the mood quite well. Also you are not limited to just sneaking up behind someone and knocking them out. You can also shoot someone with an arrow, which can be quite challenging if you don't hit them in the right spot. Adrenaline junkies need not apply. |
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Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:18 pm |
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