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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkfall14
ok..ive seen enough "piracy" bashing and ive had enough of it.....IT IS NOT THEFT! example:
Yeah! Here’s another example, if you go into a book store, grab a book off of the shelf, put it in your pocket and walk out without paying that is not stealing. Wait, yes it is!
quote:
Originally posted by Darkfall14
lets say we have a car for sale.....someone takes some futureistic copying device to it and copies it and drives away the copy...THAT CAR IS STILL ON SALE! now, if someone actually stole the car so it couldn't be sold, yea, that's theft.
Well then, if a machine that instantly clones inanimate objects is invented you should start a special interest group devoted to changing copyright law as it relates to instantaneous scientific dulcification. And in this example, what about the person who owns the car? If someone makes a copy, then they or someone else steals it, the person still looses their car.
quote:
Originally posted by Darkfall14
....more players = enhanced online expirence for both paying and non-paying customers.
A lot of multiplayer games have too many people, thus you take away from their experience in this case. Especially if you take into account the bandwidth cost.
quote:
Originally posted by Darkfall14
Also, now to the issue that it's immoral...we are not all christians! moral is a relative concept...
piracy has been in the industry since it's inception...it will NEVER go away,
I am not Christian, but I, and most governments in the world no matter their religion of choice (thus international copyright law), says stealing is wrong. And intellectual property is property.
Murder has been around longer than written history, and it will never go away, does that make it moral? |
Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:52 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
sadly enough, in some cases, throughout history (even now) there are those who view murder as moral (but i shall stop here, as i wish to stay on topic) i apologize to val for misunderstanding her reporting reply...however, it's not an issue of law knowedge, as anyone can read law books untill they are old...it's an idealogical issue...we are being overcharged in the first right for software and other items (cd's are the main culprit) these companies who are nothing about making profits...they screw over the people so they can buy a new yacht for their grandkids...and i do NOT pirate everything i see...i support underground death metal buy BUYING legitimatly cds...and games where i feel that i should support becuase they support the ideas i want gaming to go, (arcanum, morrowind, Neverwinter nights) i will purchase them as well...but if im bored and want a game just to screw around with for a little while that i wouln't buy or support otherwise, ill just dl a copy and enjoy it....no harm done, and even if there is harm, by some reason, that harm is simply the "nature of the beast" when it comes to this industry....all i ask is that im not insulted by other posters who dont share my views...if you dont agree with me fine, for your views are perfectly valid...i had no intent to start a flame war..i just get upset when ppl are "bullied" for having a different view...ah well...human nature strikes again.... |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:06 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
People have every right to profit from what they create. I also don't see the employees of these game companies going out and buying yachts. I see them going out of business. And so what if someone who profits from their work buys a yacht? Good for them, I'm glad they are reaping the benefits of their hard work. They have every right to do so.
Your illegal actions remain inexcusable. If I'm insulting you by stating facts and the truth, then you you had better stay as far away from me as you can get because you're liable to get even more insulted the longer you are in my presence.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:20 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
First insults, now threats? what happened to maturity? and profit is good, but blatantly ripping off people and abusing consumers is not. there actions are theft too, but since they have the "law" in their back pocket, their actions are justified. business is good...profits are very good, for that motivates business..BUT, companies are taking the concept of making money off of what they make and inflating it to a disgusting proportion....the people are fighting back by downloading music and supporting peer to peer file sharing...but the goose steppers in the industry are freaking out....think about it...it's mainly microsoft and other large business that are taking the main brunt of the piracy losses....the smaller companies and artists are actually profiting from the free sharing of files....their voices and works are being heard and seen, while big companies are hardly feeling anything, yet they whine and moan, simply becuase they want to rape our wallets even more |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:29 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Not a threat, a promise. I have a tendancy to state the truth often and loudly. Since you seem to be insulted by the truth, I'm just giving you a fair warning that your about to be insulted again when again I state the truth.
Get off you high horse before you fall off of it. These companies are charging the fair market value for their products. If you don't want to pay the fair market value then wait for it to go on sale. Shop the bargin bins. Don't steal their product. If people willingly pay for a product at the set price, then that is the fair market value. A company has every right to get back what they put into the research and development of their product. They also deserve to get more if it's a good product so they can continue to produce more products.
Take your "fight the man" revolution elsewhere, I'm not buying it.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:44 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
before you brandish your nazi armband too proudly, look the REAL truth, not the propaganda: look at how much it takes to actually produce the cd, and the assoicated costs.....they dont justify 50 dollars for a second, so if you want to be ignorant and keep paying and keeping the facists in business, thanks, your helping me out..... |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:23 pm |
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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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@Darkfall14 I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but you’ve been sounding as if you’re trying to imply that doing things like pirating games is noble. |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:01 pm |
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ButtOfMalmsey
Village Idiot
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 785
Location: Mississippi |
quote:
Originally posted by Darkfall14
also, one point i forgot to add is this....what about buying used games from ebay or EB? the company made the money off of ONE user, yet it could potentially be resold again and again..isn't that the same as a copy given to a friend? the only diff is that the origional owner doesn't have a copy? so what? the company still doesn't get the profit from the aditional sales.....just some food for thought....
No. Once you buy something it is yours, with the certain intellectual property exceptions. Read a book. Study the law. Grow a brain. 
You think the game publishers should get nothing? Is that why you advocate piracy? Who paid the developers' salaries for the three years they were designing the game? Not the developers, the publishers. Who pays royalties to developers? Publishers. Publishers have costs too; they bear the greatest risks for the greatest gains.
_________________
"It has been a grand journey- well-worth making once."
-Winston Churchill, 1965, on Life
I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to SPEED around a city, keeping its SPEED over fifty, and if its SPEED dropped, it would explode. I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."
-Homer Simpson
=Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Member of The Sixth House=
::Captain of the Black Company:: |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:36 pm |
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Jericho
Chicken?
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 1535
Location: Toontown with the SANDY BEACHES |
Umm.. the cost of producing a game is not much you say?
I have worked on producing a game once.. do you even know how long it takes from day1 until it hits the market?
The company i worked for just released their first game.. it took them about 4 years to complete it. Then try to figure out what it would cost you to pay more than 30 people working for 4 years.. to that you add hardware, licenses for developing programs, rent, hiring external consults to check the script, do voice-recordings.. and writing music for the game, then paying a orchestra to record it for you.. + everyone who does any kind of work on these games want to make a little profit to live on too.. after the developers got their share the company that will release often in association with the console-companys want a part, and of course the resellers.. world-wide that is A LOT of people working and everything costs! then you sit with a copy of that game and think it's only fair since you don't have enough money or whatever your problem is. Well you rip off all those people. And that is not fair!
_________________
Never argue with the insane. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
And according to Lintra it is contagious
Quote from Val to Jericho: "You're an evil little cat, you know that."
Quote from Dhruin: "*Sigh* If only I was as perfect as Jericho"
Quote from Mr Roach: "We all wish we were perfect as Jericho" |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:39 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
im not saying that piracy is noble...but, at the same token, neither is licking the boots of those who rip you off...as i said previously, i dont pirate everything, just games that i might play casually and would never buy otherwise....if i couldn't pirate those games, i just wouldn't play them...that's why i dont see the harm....either way no sale for the devloper... |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:11 am |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
No, but if you don't want to buy the game you shouldn't be able to play the game. It doesn't matter if they lose anything or not, you still steal the game.
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:15 am |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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I offer a truce and yet more insults once again I refer EVERYONE to writings of plato learn how to civilly argue.
BTW since a comment was made I don`t have time to teach a fool.
whats the point of arguing??? The only reason you argue with a person is to change their mind or learn something. IT seems to me many here simply want to show their own superiority.
A question for those of you here, why are you insulting us simply because our ideas are different??? It seems to me that your trying to make us angry fortunately I could never get angry over something said in an internet forum 
Some of you here remind of my friend (don`t worry this relevant) my friend believes that no matter what the law is. IF IT IS a law it must be obeyed no matter how unjust or wrong that law is.
Just because something is a law doesn`t make correct. Though I would make a bet that most here CONSIDER anything said by the game companies gospel.
Once again another question If I borrow a game from a friend would those of you here consider that piracy???
another question what would you make the penalty for copying a game??? I get the feeling here anyone caught copying a game would be executed
also the word ignorant is overused here just because someone has an idea different from your own does not make that person ignorant.
I`m starting to get the feeling some of you here are lawyers or at least think you are!
I doubt there is anyone here who truly understands the labyrinth that is copyright law.
Finally if I am to understand correctly making a copy of a game is EXACTLY the same as stealing something from a store???
OK lets ALL say that is 100% correct so if the above statement is true which many of you seem to agree with then the following statements would also be true.
Jumping from a ladder is the same as jumping out of an airplane. Running a mile is the same as running 10 miles. 1 dollar is the same as 100 dollars!!!!
Lets all be serious for a second you cannot seriously compare copying a VIEDO game to stealing something out of a store!!!
The videogame is already bought and paid for! The object stolen from the store is not!
Yes yes the argument can be made because of piracy the games in the store end up not being sold, still there is a fundamental difference from ripping something out of someone's hand and making a copy of it.
OR am just some asinine moron who doesn’t even know what fundamental means??!!? 
AND YES I AM IGNORANT STUID FOOL WHO KNOWS NOTHING AND SHOULD BE FLOGGED there I’ve saved all of you trouble of more insults 
I get the feeling many of you here LOVE games and want the companies to have as much money as possible to create more games, and that is why game copying is hated here so much.
Believe it or not I want the same thing!!! The funniest part of this whole thing I buy about 95% of my games! I`m always the first to buy a game when it comes out I like getting the box the manual and all that good stuff. The only time I have copied a game is if the game is a mediocre title, entertaining but not really necessary.
Actually in some cases I`m really happy to pay for game if it’s something like baldur’s gate or gothic!!!! So in a way I do see why piracy is hated so much here. No I don`t want any of you to like me but I do want myself to be understood clearly
Anybody here ever hear of a concept called moral relativism??? |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:18 am |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
Hear Hear brother! that's pretty much what ive been at the whole time...ive been trying to be civil with these people...all they want to do is call me a fool, ignorant, and even a thief....i dont know why they insist on slamming others who have a different view of things...and your analogies speak truth...and i agree about the law thing..so many ppl confuse law with morals, that everyone who breaks the law is some terrible person....such brainwashing over the populace...at least we have one enlightented, intelligent person on this discussion.... |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:07 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
@Darkfall14 - expand on your statement that game prices are a rip-off, please. What is your evidence? |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:59 am |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
for example, look at movies....they cost much, much more than a game costs....however, they are inexpinsive to view or purchase...it's 8 bucks a ticket for the movie, 20-30 dollars to buy it...even way back, games that were 50 dollars came with extra things...such as maps, massive tome-like manuals and the like...such things justified the fifty dollar purchase..now we get a slip of paper as a quickstart guide, and paper sleeves for the cds! i would elorborate more, but ive been out for some time today, so it's getting late and im getting tired....good eve to ye all..... |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:09 am |
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