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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Over this last weekend I read an old (70's) book on astrophyics. In it, there was a description of different flavors of black holes. Paraphrasing one scenario:
If the black hole is rotating, a second event horizon appears inside of the first one. As the speed of rotation is increased the second event horizon expands outwards. The maximum speed of rotation is when the two event horizons are in the same place. If the rotational speed is increased beyond that a naked singularity appears. It is shaped as a one dimensional torus. It is possible to fly through the middle of the torus to an alternate universe - the event horizons have ceased to exist.
Okay, two, no three questions.
1. How, and why does a second event horizon occur.
2. Why does the condition of spinning so fast the second event horizon excededs the fist fundaementally change the nature of the black hole?
3. Why a torus in shape?
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Tue Oct 29, 2002 6:49 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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From my ridiculously limited knowledge of astrophysics:
The black hole has to be charged with electricity and spinning. A second event horizon (heck, two event horizons don't make sense to me; they simply don't) appears to counteract the spinning force of the first one. The more electrical charge a black hole has, the faster the event horizons will spin. The inner will spin outwards, the outer inwards. Eventually they will merge into a single event horizon, which will keep spinning inwards. As it spins inwards, it reaches the singularity and vanishes. Now, since there's no event horizon, the singurality itself is able to interact with the universe around it, creating all kinds fo havoc and distorting the laws of physics. The torus mentioned in the book is probably the wormhole, which now is "able to exist" due to the disappearance of the event horizon.
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Tue Oct 29, 2002 11:12 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by goshuto
From my ridiculously limited knowledge of astrophysics:
The black hole has to be charged with electricity and spinning. A second event horizon (heck, two event horizons don't make sense to me; they simply don't) appears to counteract the spinning force of the first one. The more electrical charge a black hole has, the faster the event horizons will spin. The inner will spin outwards, the outer inwards. Eventually they will merge into a single event horizon, which will keep spinning inwards. As it spins inwards, it reaches the singularity and vanishes. Now, since there's no event horizon, the singurality itself is able to interact with the universe around it, creating all kinds fo havoc and distorting the laws of physics. The torus mentioned in the book is probably the wormhole, which now is "able to exist" due to the disappearance of the event horizon.
According to the book I just finished a high electrical charge is *another* way to get a naked singularity, but it would have to be so highly charged that it could not happen.
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Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:11 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Another way? Does the book describe it? Now I'm curious; I thought that naked singularities were already weird enough with one way of happening. Regarding the charges, I don't think non-charged black holes exist in reality, only in theory. I could be wrong, though, so I'll check.
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Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:27 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
If you really want to, I'm sure that you could join this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendsofguy/
and ask Br. Guy, S.J. your questions. 
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Wed Oct 30, 2002 11:29 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
If you really want to, I'm sure that you could join this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendsofguy/
and ask Br. Guy, S.J. your questions.
Sauron, I am confused. Why would this group be of any use to me? From the link you posted it just looks like plain vanilla discussion group.
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Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:13 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
I dunno... once he came to our house for dinner, and he was at the time the Vatican's chief astronomer and theoretical astrophysicist, running "God's" observatory at quite a hefty cost. He's written a number of books on topics ranging from "The Way to the Dwelling of Light," to backyard astronomy; so I can only assume that he'd know what it is that you'd like to know.
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Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:39 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Lintra, I found a couple of links that explain a tad more about rotations and second event horizons:
"As a third one, as we have mentioned before, let us have a look at a black hole that has no electric charge and which is stationary. When we start turning the hole, a second event horizon will appear again. The reason for that (as it is the case in the centrifugal force), is to resist against the attraction force by turning. If the turning speed of the hole increases, the inner event horizon starts to increase, but the outer event horizon narrows. When the turning reaches a maximum speed, the two event horizons overlap and they get lost and bare oneness is formed just like it happens in the charged black holes. But despite the similarity with the charged kind, this kind’s oneness is perpendicular to the rotation disk and has a loop form at the equator plane." Link
"The physical difference with the most impact, though, is whether it is a rotating or non-rotating black hole. A still black hole is just as was discribed: event horizon, that singularity. But a rotating black hole has two even horizons, and makes some major differences.
Inside the first event horizon, it is just like a non-rotating black hole (the rotation, by the way, is from the rotation of the star before it collapses): gravity pulling you in faster and faster. But when you hit the second event horizon, it's like the eye of a storm: There is no singularity, and space-time seems to return to normal.
There is a problem, of course-there may be anti-gravity after the second event horizon, so you would be spit right back out. To where? Perhaps an alternate universe." [url=library.thinkquest.org/2890/blahol.htm]Link[/url] This link seems to be dead but I got it from Google's cache.
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"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:29 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Okay, I think I'll save this one as well ... I never really felt I got an understanding of the dynamics involved ... maybe some else out there can give it second shot. And if not, then at least you'll now know that there are many flavors of black holes 
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:21 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Taken up necromancy as a new hobby, Lintra? 
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Yeah, I was a little bored and so I figured I'd raise a thread or two from the dead *grin*
Nah. Not really. But Myrthos suggested that any threads I wanted saved shoud be moved ... I didn't know where else to put them. The most-likely-now-dead user group had some pretty good discussions ... I only saved a few I personally really enjoyed.
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Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:06 pm |
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Ortchel
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 7
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That's ridiculously limited?
Geez, you must have attended school outside of America.
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:15 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Onur
What the heck is a "naked singularity"?
A hole in the space time continuum with out an event horizon. If that sentance does not make sense, don't feel bad. It is pretty esoteric stuff, you have to be into astro physics to really discuss this stuff.
I just thought it was a neat topic ... and I still don't have answers to my three questions!! Hmmm, not entirely true. Given the creation of the second event horizon I can see why when it passes the original you'd get a torus shaped hiccup in space time, but I DONT understand why they middle of the torus is in real space.... AND I still have no idea as to the answers to questions one and two.
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:55 pm |
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