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Whailor
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
Lee clearly states, if you join him as a mercenary, that he is to "exact vengance on the king, the kings advisors, etc".
Yep, as I mentioned above, Lee was never a paladin, so I agree 
In regards about extracting the vengeance against the king, then the dialogue was a bit different. Lee said that he will have his vengeance agains "psychopats" who put him away and he meant some nobles from the kings court. When the player asked about it, Lee angrily said "I will have my vengeance against them!" and when the player asked "Even the king?", Lee angrily said "Even the king!". At the same time, before this, Lee was speaking about it and he said that he was framed and that there was no evidence for him to protect himself against those accusations, so that the king had no other choice then to sentence him to the colony. However, the penalty for such a crime would have been death, but it was king who actually managed to save Lee from the death due to Lee's services given to the country. I bet nobles hoped to see Lee die and weren't happy that the king let him live, although seeing Lee being thrown behind the Barrier probably 'eased' their minds, as the Barrier was impenetrable.
So in a way Lee is angry at the king of course, for throwing him into the colony, but at the same time Lee in a way understood why it was done so and was even grateful for this, because he wasn't executed. So he said "Even on the king!" in anger, while he perhaps didn't even mean that originally. Lee has plenty of reasons to knock the lights out of some nobles, from the king he would expect official apology, official exoneration of the crime and restoration of his position and anything else related to it, should Lee choose to come back into the kings service (which is a question on it's own).
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Been there, done that . . . |
Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:40 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
Who says PB will exactly follow the sayings and writings from the previous 2 games. Of course they will not completely come up with something different, but maybe they just have better ideas about the story. In several years their opinion about the gothic-series can be changed significantly.
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:48 am |
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Rangehurts
High Emperor
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 589
Location: Canada |
I'm quiet sure that Lee never was a paladin. In gothic 2 he hates them.
and also as everyone had said he is not fighting for Innos.
quote:
Who says PB will exactly follow the sayings and writings from the previous 2 games. Of course they will not completely come up with something different, but maybe they just have better ideas about the story. In several years their opinion about the gothic-series can be changed significantly.
Of coarse they cant change the story line in the middle of the Gothic series but Im sure that there gonna be something really shocking in G3. Something that will start a new story. At least i hope so...
LOL. GUYS! Is there gonna be Gothic 4?  I hope yes...
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:43 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Hmm.. a good point, who says PB will follow every single word? They haven't done so in the past; it's possible to find "crashes" between the story of Gothic 1 and 2, and I assume such crashes will exist between Gothic 2 and 3 as well. I honestly believe that we put WAY to much into every word in the game - even PB probably didn't think about every sentence as much as we do, we simply analyze the game too much. |
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:10 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
We're obsessed. 
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:56 am |
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Rangehurts
High Emperor
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 589
Location: Canada |
quote:
I honestly believe that we put WAY to much into every word in the game - even PB probably didn't think about every sentence as much as we do, we simply analyze the game too much.
Yeah....probably...if PB would listen to everythingwhat we say and follow our ideas i dont think the game would be that much of a fun.....i dunno...oh, well...PB does it their way. We discuss it in our way...
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:30 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
quote:
Originally posted by Rangehurts
Yeah....probably...if PB would listen to everythingwhat we say and follow our ideas i dont think the game would be that much of a fun.....i dunno...oh, well...PB does it their way. We discuss it in our way...
Well, from the last interview we know that PB does listen to our suggestions, but indeed (for our own good) they build the game their own way, it does give them good ideas now and then.
But the story is something only PB knows about...
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:10 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Yupp, let's just trust PB to do it right. If they continue the story as well as they have so far, it's going to be great! |
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:15 pm |
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Guybrush Threepwood
High Emperor
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 500
Location: Oklahoma |
Side note: About the powers being taken away bit. Innos does not take your powers away even if you went bad. Look at Xardas. He was on the high council of the magicians of fire and went rogue.
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"What are you gonna do? Release the dogs?! Or the bees?! Or dogs with bees in their mouth so that when they bark they shoot bees at you?" - Homer Simpson |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:37 am |
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Deja.Vu
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 7
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Paladins are an order. It is stated hundred of times in the game. The Order of the Paladins is an religious order which serve above all their god, Innos, and only in second place, the King, which is, or better should be, the symbol of Justice and Law. Thus, the Paladins serve what the King represents, acting as the Royal Guard. Since the Order is composed by the most pure and greatest warriors, it can't be a massive army. And being a religious institution, it has no generals. Lords act as commanders, or those who have proved themselves to be worthy of such position.
Then, there is the army, composed by the Men-at-Arms, Armigers, mercenaries, regular knights (NOT of the Order of Paladins) etc. Lee commanded such an army. |
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:06 am |
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Cloaked Figure
Village Leader
Joined: 11 Feb 2002
Posts: 75
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quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
There is no way Lee would simply "lose his magical powers" if he had ever had Magical powers, and ALL high ranking Paladins have magical powers(their gift from Innos, for being his warriors).
Perhaps the Paladin Order Stripped Lee of his runes? All the mana in the world doesnt help you, if you do not have runes.
In my personal opinion, i do not think PB intended Lee to be a Paladin, Dont you think something would have be mentioned to fact? Like Lee saying something about atleast being associated with the order?
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-CF 
Your Freindly Neighborhood Lunatic
"Women You can't live with them, And they hate it when you Violate small furry animals with a Jagged Stick." |
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:48 pm |
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Nameles BQQN
Village Dweller
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 9
Location: The never Netherlands |
ellow yall
hang on here it comes,
there isnt a certainty in anything. even if you do something for the second time it will be different and there isnt a straight rule for anything.
lee hates the paladins because they abandoned him when he got framed
not every paladin uses magic
lee is sick of the hierachy and rules and comitments of the order of innos
in g1 there were roque's and then bandits, when the barrier colapsed they needed money since all the ore in the new camp became useles (wasnt me) so they just started to sell themselves to the highest and only bidder: the landowner,
someone who selles himselve to fight for another man is called a mercenary and because lee has commanding experience he became leader (also in g1) when there was more money to make from dragontrophys they took the dragonhunter path again with a very open relaxed do what you want lifestyle, completely different from the stricked pala way of life with asking before you take a dump.
if you ''read between the lines'' from the beginning the only purpose of becoming a paladin was not devotion to innos but an order from xardas who used the nameles one for his own dirty buisnes.
and in the same way lee is using the group survival idea of the merc's for his own purpose: survive, get strong, regroup an army, and get revenge in g3
so, lee was a general in the army of: militia archers knights and the frontline sub commanders and special forces the paladins. but now he hates them and there way of life because when the nobles framed him with a murder or something all the paldins abandoned him.
aaaargh i cant wait anylonger!!!!!!
this was my vision on the whole lee general idea i dont reply often but i have read almost every post here since i first read about g1.
that's about it.... BQQN OUT
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gothic makes the world a better place to live, there's so much to take and effort to give,
if someone gets in your way, kill him or kick his ass all day, and when someone starts beggin, just say fuck you i killed an undead dragon, |
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Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:49 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
To be honest, I don't even think PB thought of all of this when they made him. They just made him a general that had served the king, and wanted vengance because he was framed. End of story.
The rest is, in fact, irrelevant. In every other game than Gothic.
This is one of the reasons why I love Gothic. The characters you meet have a past, present and a future. They have a life(kind of). Aaah I just love this game(ok, now it's getting weird, I know).
Back to Lee. I think he was the Kings' right hand, and best general. The Paladins, however, do not serve the King directly at all. They don't answer to him, they answer to Innos.
Basically, my idea is this:
You have three different parts of the army in the land:
1) The Military, of which Lee was the leader.
2) The Order of Fire, of which the High Council are leaders(some people on the mainland probably)
3) The Paladins, that has a leader just like the military, but not Lee.
The King stands above all these, in a way. He can order them about(Lord Hagen states that he was ordered there by the King), BUT if Innos should wish otherwise, they would follow his order instead, all except the military which only answers to the King.
At least that's how I see it. |
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:50 am |
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tolgerias
High Emperor
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 770
Location: The Netherlands |
I don't think the Order of Fire is a part of the army, they serve innos alone but have some kind of alliance with the kingdom, they can be called for to help but the king can't really command them or something.
of course they will always help when the kingdom faces evil but in a civil war they might just stay in the monastery or even protest against it.
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If you can't debate without namecalling then don't bother visiting us. -Myrthos |
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:02 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Tolgerias the Cowled Wizard. Love BG2.
Lord Hagens' power to grant you access to the Eye of Innos by writing a note to Pyrokar, was given to him by the king, not Innos afaik, so if Pyrokar is willing to give someone access to a holy relic based on the kings orders(or his representative), he must have some sort of power over them.
I do agree, however, that they answer to Innos above all, but I still think the King has some authority even when it comes to the mages. On the other hand, they are pretty arrogant so I doubt the uber high council mage would bow down to anyone, even the King. I just don't know really, and to be honest I don't think G3 will answer all such questions regarding politics.
Oh well, it's fun to discuss anyway! |
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Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:11 am |
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