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cothyso
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 100
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Another thing I saw in those Diccuric scripts, is the fact that the new english lines seem to need to be placed INSTEAD Diccuric's original german ones.
My suggestion would be to put the translation underneath, to have an easy way to check/correct the translations.
For DNdR addon translation we used codes in front of each lines which stated what type of line is that (in game function), if it was original gothic 2 text or addon one, if it was a german line or a translated line and who translated that line.
Here's an example about how a G2 DNdR ETM translation file looked like:
quote:
#* D:\Games\_zzz\g2ndr_2.6_english\_work\data\scripts\Content\_english_test\Story\Dialoge\DIA_Addon_BAU_4300_Cavalorn.d
%%
##)& (Es wäre einfach sein Pfeilbündel zu stehlen)
##)3 (His arrow bundle could be simply stolen)
$% DIA_Addon_Cavalorn_HALLO_15_00
##)& Hast du Ärger?
##)2 In trouble?
$ DIA_Addon_Cavalorn_HALLO_Ja_15_00
##(& Dein Name ist Cavalorn, richtig?
##(7 Your name is Cavalorn, right?
...
& TOPIC_Addon_CavalornTheHut
##~& Cavalorn will, dass ich nachsehe, ob seine alte Hütte im Minental immer noch steht. Soweit ich mich erinnern kann, befindet sich seine Hütte im hügeligen Land westlich vom damaligen alten Lager. Ich vermute, er hat dort noch irgendetwas liegen lassen.
##~3 Cavalorn wants me to look, whether his old hut still stands in the mine valley. As far as I can recall, his hut was in the hills west of the Old Camp. I assume, anything could still yet be left in there.
$ DIA_Addon_Cavalorn_Beutel_15_00
##)& Ich war bei deiner Hütte im Minental.
##)7 I was at your hut in the mine valley.
...
$ DIA_Addon_Cavalorn_TEACH_15_00
##)& Ich will deine Fähigkeiten erlernen.
##)7 I want to learn of your skills.
%%
##(& Schleichen
##(3 To sneak.
#* D:\Games\_zzz\g2ndr_2.6_english\_work\data\scripts\Content\_english_test\Story\Dialoge\DIA_Addon_BDT_10004_Finn.d
$ DIA_Addon_BDT_10004_Finn_Hacker_15_00
##)& Wieder bei der Arbeit?
##)7 At work again?
$ DIA_Addon_Finn_Hacke_15_00
##)& Wo kriege ich 'ne Spitzhacke her?
##)7 Where do I get a pickax here?
...
$
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Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:20 pm |
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cothyso
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 100
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To explain it a little:
#* lines are for the files from which all the following translating chuncks (until a new #* line is met) are taken from
A translating chunk is made from 3 lines:
- first line is an identifier (for dialog's ID for example, or diary's ID, or whatever else is that chunck about), if it's an %% then the chunk is pure text without having any identifier associated (like an item name etc)
- the second line is the actual german text line (the code which ends in & means exactly that this line is the original german text)
-the thrird line is the translated text of the german line above (the last digit from the code, which is a number , actually shows the translator's ID = ie the one which did that translation)
The injecting back parser for example would open this file, theen look for first #* occurance, open that specific file stated in that #* line, then parse all the chuncks, looking for marked places in the original scripts and putting back the text from the 3rd line of the chunck (the translation). When a new #8 was met, the opened script waere closed, then the new one is opened, getting his translations back and so on
The advantages?
All the texts which are logically conected are in the same file (we had for example a dump file for the dialogs, one for the dialogs' options, one for tiems, one for story, one for pure text etc)
The translators have both the original text and the translation one followed by another, allowing easy translation corrections
Also, that will allow easy replacements for re-translations of specific words/phrases (like we had steintafel first translated as stone plate, then we found that's wrong and retranslated it as stone table)
Easy way to look for others translation of specific words/phrases (helped a lot the less skilled translators to look over what the better ones did)
The correctors knows who translated that line, to look for specific translator's errors in other parts
The code allowed a lot of other things (easy parsing, possiblity to have more lines for translations with suggestions etc) |
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Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:43 pm |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
@Cothyso:
Hey, before the final beta;
$ DIA_Addon_Finn_Hacke_15_00
##)& Wo kriege ich 'ne Spitzhacke her?
##)7 Where do I get a pickax here?
'kriege' is war. Better to translate it as maybe:
##)~ Where do I get a war axe here?
##)~ Where's a pickaxe to fight with here?
Sorry I have not played through the whole add-on; I had some stuff to be done. I am back in business now. I did not see that line yet....
Makes it easy to find stuff. I guess in this instance; the meaning may not make much difference. I assume using the 'kreige' word, Finn wants a War Axe to fight with rather than Pickaxe to mine minerals with (though a Pick Axe does make a nice 'War' weapon! -the sentence is fine as it stands in the context of the dialog it is understood he wants to fight with it).
The organization makes it in context to get the true meaning of that line. See how my German is a bit rough?
Anyway, someone needs to figure out for Diccuric how the text German is 'taken out' of the files, translated, the they need to be injected back into the files. Else it will take a long time.
I do not know squat about scripting. So maybe you guys can figure out something and I can help in my slow ass way to translate. I can only do about 25 lines of German a day. About 1500 letters.
_________________
Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:05 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
You´re both right and wrong. The translation can probably be improved. It´s too dry.
Yes, "Kriege" with a capital K is the plural of "war", but in this case it´s 1st person singular of the verb kriegen.
The "her" is the 2nd half of the word "woher" (wherefrom).
So he´s asking in a colloquial way where he can get a pickaxe. The answer can be a place or a person.
_________________
Webmaster GothicDot |
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Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:30 pm |
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Moe
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 30
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I think, that there is no problem for changing the output/input style of files, if someone applies for translating and wishes a change. But I won't change the tools as long as I'm not sure, that someone will translate the left files. So are there some guys to help Xerxes?
And Gorath is right with his translation, "kriegen" is a familiar word for "bekommen" and does not mean wars in this context.  |
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Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:11 pm |
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Arseny
Village Dweller
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 3
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I think that even the people who don't know German can help. If you guys run your German text through a German -> English translator you will get a translation but some of the words will be mixed up, and that's where people the know English fairly well or better come in by just rearanging the words into complete sentences, or will at least have an idea of what the sentence is about and form it themselves. Anyways, if you guys ever do take my suggestion into consideration I can help rearanging the word and formin sentences.
_________________
Gothic 1,2 = Easy.
Gothic 3 =Hopefully hard and without an ending. |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:16 am |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
Thanks for clarifying that Gorath. Kriege and kriege; I forgot to look at the small letter 'k' not 'K'. I did not know 'her' is a short form of woheren. I could see that kriege was being used as a verb, but I was thinking of 'fighting' Kriege not 'to get' kriege. Leo dictionary is handy.
If you were not reading the Geman, how does one know the difference in hearing; except through the context of the dialog I guess.
So my translation are funny sometimes as you can see, depending upon how much colloqual forms are used.
Anywayzzz...where are the tools to peel off the text from the files in order to translate the little buggers?
I just run through an auto translator, try to remember from school, and the grammar forms, and try to make sense out of it best I can. Nothing fancy from me. I have alot of data bases in usage to look up alot of slangish stuff from that huge project.
Moe, do you have the files or tools to extract the text from the files to translate, then inject them back in? Heck it can always be cleaned up later. I am no expert at all in German, so others feel free to try also.
I speak my German like a 5 grader, but I get the point across. It can always be cleaned up later, I guess. That is the best I can offer. 
_________________
Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:06 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
"Wo kriege ich 'ne Spitzhacke her?"
"Woher kriege ich 'ne Spitzhacke?"
They cut the word in half to make it sound more colloquial.
You can get the difference between the verb and the noun out of the context and the position in the sentence. 'W-questions' typically have a verb as 2nd word.
Leo´s special trick are the browser plug-ins. 
_________________
Webmaster GothicDot |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:51 am |
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Moe
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 30
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quote:
Originally posted by Xerxes712
Moe, do you have the files or tools to extract the text from the files to translate, then inject them back in? Heck it can always be cleaned up later. I am no expert at all in German, so others feel free to try also.
I have the tools to extract and reinsert the text again. The files I put online are those, which are left to translate. I dunno if you wanna have another file format, currently you replace the German sentences with the translated ones. |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:59 pm |
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cothyso
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 100
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As the things are looking until now, the amount of work is far less than DNdR, i think less than 1-2 weeks with our full team.
Unfortunatelly our full team never exista anymore, atm me, Draakan, Gorn and Xerxes are the only one left.
I do want to help (even if my help is pretty poor regarding german to english translation), Xerxes too, Draakan said he'll help too (but he must go away in a holiday for like 2 weeks from this week on) and couldn't find gorn yet to ask him about (but I'm sure he'll say yes). |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:19 pm |
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Moe
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 30
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okay, then post your wishes, how I should change the file format and I'll fix the tools to work with the new file format |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:15 pm |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
The file formats are still a *.d file in hex form. I would have to hex edit in each letter one at a time and make it fit back in the same space. I need some kind of tool to extract the text, do you know what I mean?
My UltraEdit32 free trial expired. I need to get another one that does the text editing easy like that one did. Several on the Net.
I see some people are left, Draakan and Gorn are very fast. I am slow but I do know much more today.
Anyone can proof read it in game to make changes. I never played the Diccuric Mod for Gothic so someone needs to see how it flows in game and fix the always present mistakes after it is done. This is because the text is being translated outside of their dialog structure and thus the true meaning is not always there to glean.
Well, as far as the tool goes, what are the tools you are using to get the text out of the file so it can be translated so much faster? I do not wish to use a hex editor one letter at a time since it would take forever. I can read the German text fine within the *.d files, but I want to copy and paste the sentences for speed of translation.
You have a tool, Moe? Please show me and how to use it maybe? I am not that technical in computer language scripting, but I have basic skill to use a tool.
_________________
Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:28 pm |
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Moe
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 30
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The files I uploaded are no Gothic script files. They are already the output of my tool, even if there is the ending ".d", it's the same as a ".txt" file (I'm currently unsure, if I created a Unix or Windows file...if the new line system doesn't work, it's Unixstyle, but Wordpad can use this format...). You can change them with every texteditor, or with OpenOffice, Word or what you'd like to use. I need a text file without any formats to reinsert the text again, but every Office Tool and Texteditor can save as a txt file without formating strings.
My tools won't help you, because they run through a directory structure and dumps/insert all text out of/back into the scriptfiles. I don't know, what you are searching, but a normal Texteditor has all features, that are needed for translation. There are no limitations for space, but in case that you think that you need a new text box, you should note it in an extra textfile and report me, where I should do the changes to insert the extra textbox (for that, I need to change the script files of Diccuric). |
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Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:08 am |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
OK I did not know that I can use a simple text editor.
Do I need to keep the file the exact same length?
I will try to keep the English in the same space, even if it needs to be shortened.
Great my engine in my truck blew a head gasket today! Now I have to work on that pile of junk. It may need a new engine. "Time is the fire in which we burn." Never have enough of it. That will take some serious time away from my gaming /mod hobby.
I will do one file from that german.zip and give it back to you and tell me if that is the correct usable form.
If I am doing it correct; then get more people to help out since it would take months for me to do it at 25 lines, 1 file average a day. It does need some group effort. Where is Jaz' work to look at? Is there more already finished?
My German language skills are improving, but someone still needs to review them.  Ask Gorn and Cothyso...I am not always correct translation. 
_________________
Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:22 am |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
Here is a quick rough example translated. I sent you a file .d Moe.
file name DIA_DIC_2013_Benchol.d
1 (BES) = Did you get no wine?
2 (DIA, other->self) = Have you still gotten no wine yet?
3 (DIA, self->other) = Dammit, No. I search here among the lads for something else.
4 (DIA, other->self) = Taliasan's stuff?
5 (DIA, self->other) = Yes, but just no supply. Do you know Taliasan well?
6 (DIA, other->self) = Yes, I am his student.
7 (DIA, self->other) = Great! Perhaps you can ask him what he has for us.
8 (DIA, other->self) = Yes, perhaps.
9 (TB) = Taliasan has not yet supplied Benchol. Perhaps I see what can be done there.
10 (BES) = Are you Benchol?
11 (DIA, other->self) = Benchol, are you him?
12 (DIA, self->other) = hicks ....
13 (BES) = Hey, Benchol. Today joke day?
14 (DIA, other->self) = Hey, Benchol. Today joke day?
15 (DIA, self->other) = A day as well as any other.
16 (DIA, other->self) = What more did Berengar actually say?
17 (DIA, self->other) = Nothing at all. Once someone comes to replace us, then Graveyarn usually sends us to clean the floors of the Viennese tower with sponge in hand.
18 (DIA, other->self) = Oh.
19 (DIA, self->other) = Sit down and drink one with us.
20 (DIA, other->self) = Not now. Another time. Who are the others then?
21 (DIA, self->other) = Worker and two hunters.
22 (DIA, other->self) = Do you deny your service? Do not let them catch you.
23 (DIA, self->other) = Cheers!
24 (DIA, other->self) = Two hunters?
25 (DIA, self->other) = Yes just recently adjoined to us.
_________________
Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:37 am |
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