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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
| Finished it - a short opinion about it |
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I am finished with Oblivion: 130 hours / Level 30 / Warrior / 170 quests solved
8 open / grand master in all guilds / main quest solved
Oblivion is a good adventure game, but it's not a great rpg game. why ?
1. rule for a rpg -> I start as an unperfect nobody -> through training and questing I can raise my skills -> in the end I am the hero
... the Oblivion level scaling ruins this, you feel always the same, because the game engine levels all for you, chests, enemies, loot, ...
2. rule for a rpg -> you have to make choices and have to live with restrictions
... with the exception - live as a vampire - there are absolutly no restrictions in Oblivion - freedom is the holy grail in Oblivion - I am grandmaster in all guilds - I can wear all clothes - I can go everywhere, evertytime -> no challenge at all.
3. rule for a rpg -> a good dialog system is essential -> look at Planescape Torment
... Oblivion dialoges are stripped down, combined with a silly mini game.
4. rule for a rpg -> make challenges:
good rpg: you want to go into the woods as a level 1 caracter ? - try it, but you will be beaten up (look at Gothic) in a good rpg you have to train and equip yourself to be ready for the next great quest.
... In Oblivion you can be grandmaster of the arena with level 1, close the first Oblivion gate at level 1, beat Daedras up at Level 1 ... it's freedom, but it is unreality, too.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild= |
Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:56 pm |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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I think your definition of an RPG is overly narrow.
"... the Oblivion level scaling ruins this, you feel always the same, because the game engine levels all for you, chests, enemies, loot, ..."
A lot of RPG's have monsters that level with you (I do agree they need more monsters like Rats and Imps which only level to a certain degree). Wizardry has it and the elder scrolls has always had it. I think it is more of a problem with your particular character build or your usage or magical items. I got my sneak/blade character to level 47 and he was almost godlike and had no problem taking on 6-7 enemies at the same time.
"... with the exception - live as a vampire - there are absolutly no restrictions in Oblivion - freedom is the holy grail in Oblivion - I am grandmaster in all guilds - I can wear all clothes - I can go everywhere, evertytime -> no challenge at all. "
Doesn't this kind of contradict your previous statement? It sounds like you want people to be narrowed into a particular character class, how is this supposed to make the game more difficult may I ask?
"3. rule for a rpg -> a good dialog system is essential -> look at Planescape Torment
... Oblivion dialoges are stripped down, combined with a silly mini game. "
I think many people would disagree with you. Some of the best RPG's I have played have had almost no dialog, eg Wizardry, Bards Tale, Wasteland, Eye of the Beholder 1&2, Dungeon Master etc
"... In Oblivion you can be grandmaster of the arena with level 1, close the first Oblivion gate at level 1, beat Daedras up at Level 1 .."
I do agree with this, I would like some form of control of the level scaling. Something like the first 4 fights can have enemies from level 1-5 then the next rank would 6-10 etc etc.
". it's freedom, but it is unreality, too."
And how many times have you leveled up in real life recently? |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:06 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
quote:
Doesn't this kind of contradict your previous statement? It sounds like you want people to be narrowed into a particular character class, how is this supposed to make the game more difficult may I ask?
some ideas for restrictions, that could have been made:
it should be impossible to sneak with heavy armor, maybe at very high levels
it should be nearly impossible to cast with heavy armour, maybe at very high levels
If I am in the thieves guild and in the mages guild, and sent into prison,
the mages guild should throw me out.
in other words:
you should have to make choices: what to wear, which guild ... and these choices should have consequences - play a role - not everything.
quote:
I think many people would disagree with you. Some of the best RPG's I have played have had almost no dialog, eg Wizardry, Bards Tale, Wasteland, Eye of the Beholder 1&2, Dungeon Master etc
Wizardry 7,8 have a simple dialog interface, but you can even tip in words, and it's sometimes tricky to get all dialog options.
quote:
And how many times have you leveled up in real life recently?
Leveling in rpgs is a time laps for me compared to real life.
I am leveling up in real life, too. (It takes much longer than in a rpg) I have learned a lot the last 37 years, I have made choices with consequences - I am the result of my choices and my doings plus the reaction of my environment and the people I am associated with.
Real Life is the biggest rpg of all 
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
Last edited by HiddenX on Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:18 pm |
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pink-hippo
Counselor of the King
Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 351
Location: Val's hairy legs |
| Re: Finished it - a short opinion about it |
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quote:
Originally posted by HiddenX
... Oblivion dialoges are stripped down, combined with a silly mini game.
Sure. Give us not-so-stripped down dialogues and let's see how many complaints we will get from x360 gamers.
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:39 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
The world of Oblivion is indeed a beautiful place, but I have to agree with you.. in many ways it's more of an adventure questing game than RPG, as your level plays no role at all(other than the level requirement of the deadric shrine quests). To me, Baldurs Gate 1-2 created the foundation for my RPG definition, and Gothic re-defined it. The RPG element in those games is incredibly strong, and play a vital part in almost everything you do.
Oblivion is still a great game, by all means, but the RPG element is poor compared to certain games. |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:52 pm |
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Bopoxdren
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 41
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Oblivion is more of an exploration and combat "simulator" than it is a RPG. I think what's missing in Oblivion is the "G"! I'm hard pressed to find the GAME in Oblivion. Very few puzzles; no tricky dialogue segments; except for being excellently scripted, the quests have no real challenge for the player to solve them... other than for the twitch based combat. The story is not too bad but with the weakness of the dialogue system, it feels really flat to me... not immersive.
Pretty good simulator, though... |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:30 pm |
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InsaneOrc
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Germania |
yeah it is more an adventure game (the PC game genre), but an adventure where you get exactly told what to do next, so you dont have to think at all. I bet I could finish this game in chinese, only follow the sign and click everythink that pops up/kill everything attacking you.
So it's more of an "interactive movie" ? 
No seriously, bit overrated as an rpg, huh ?
P.S. XBox is Satan !  |
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Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:09 am |
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Lostnumber
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 52
Location: An ugly brown desk |
I really have to agree with the exploration and adventure vs. rpg argument. There was never really a point where I felt small and insignificant or great and powerful. If anything it seems as though the game gets more difficult and frustrating. The balance of the game's difficulty really depended nowhere I placed the difficulty slider.
The idea of building a character that suits the game's dynamics might work, but I really don't think that the player should suit the game. However, I haven't noticed much of a difference across my characters. When all are played at normal difficulty I find that the difficulty of the game increases with level; almost to a point where playing at normal difficulty at level 25 and beyond becomes nothing more than a click-fest.
I really enjoyed Gothic's style of game play. The monsters did level with the PC (snappers to dragon snappers and so on) but not to a point where the game was overbearing at the end. There was a consistent level of challenge, but the player always felt vulnerable in the beginning and accomplished at the end. I enjoyed finding a super weapon at level 10 and running around with it. In oblivion there is nothing but garbage in the beginning, but by the end everyone is walking around in glass and daedric armor. There is no sense of inherent danger in oblivion, and equally so no sense of superiority. The difficulty slider controls all in this regard and in my opinion the game wouldn't be very enjoyable near the end without it. Exploration grows dull when every cave has the same thing, bandits chock full of expensive items. Why the hell are they bandits? They could easily get together, sell their possessions and buy the best house available.
Overall this game is great, but the leveling system combined with inane npc conversation, stupid npcs ( I've snuck up on a bandit and killed him in one hit when he was talking with another bandit, the other bandit just sat there acting like nothing happened, I've waved my sword in a guards face and he didn't care, I've picked up a quill from a table and got tossed in jail) lackluster magic effects, and disjointed npc bodies (old and disgusting faces w/ hot bodies) really detracts from the game. |
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Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:30 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Supid NPC AI!!!!! Took a character on a quest with me. He stood on a trap and wouldn't get off. It knocked him unconscious (several times) but he wouldn't move when awake. Had to reload!! Then we're walking on a bridge thing with monsters below it. He couldn't get to them, but he wouldn't leave the bridge. Later, he dismissed me in a dungeon and got himself trapped in a corner and couldn't get out- just kept waling in circles!!!!!!! I wonder if he's still there!! 
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Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:27 am |
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