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Muten
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 2
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| Lack of (non-massive) multiplayer RPGs |
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I think it is really hard nowadays to find even one good multiplayer RPG in 2 years.
It seems for every MRPG there are 10 Singleplayer RPGs and 10 MMORPGs,
am I the only one seeing that?
After playing System Shock II with my friends, I thought this would be the future of MRPGs. But I was so wrong.
Time passed by and I had all my hopes in Neverwinter Nights, but this game was such an huge disappointment for me.
With its really ugly graphics and design, bad atmosphere, boring story and stupid fighting system, I had to look further.
But i found NOTHING! Absolutely Nothing.
Today I am looking forward to Dungeon Lords, which has every Element of a MRPG I wish for. Cooperative Multiplayer in an RPG, the greatest thing ever!
But it still seems as if the MRPG genre was practically born dead when the MMORPGs arrived.
And I won`t play a MMORPG ever, forget it. It`s too expensive and I don`t like the playstyle. A MMORPG can by its nature not have a good story or atmospheric gameplay. IMHO it is only a glorified chatroom.
P.S: This is not a flame bait against MMORPGs, I just wanted to make my point. |
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:14 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I'm sorry to say it - but I'm glad. While I play NWN with friends most weekends I honestly believe the single-player experience is the essence of CRPGs. There's a whole industry geared to multiplayer RPGs and I'm happy for the remaining developers to concentrate on delivering the best single-player product possible. 
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Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:00 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Two upcoming games with coop MP are
Sacred - 4 players coop campaign + other modes for up to 16 people
The Fall add-on - 6 players cooperative campaigns (main game + add-on) given the game sells adequate enough to really make the add-on and the technical side can be managed.
I´m a pure SP gamer. Most RPGs have relatively small budgets. I´m happy the smaller devs concentrate on what they´re best at.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:08 am |
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Muten
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 2
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@ Druin & Gorath
I envy you. I can`t seem to hold on to singleplayer games anymore, there is no way back.
Playing Singleplayer games is for me like trying to play old games, the graphics just don`t hold up to today`s games. I guess I`m just too spoiled.
@ Gorath
Sacred is pretty much a Diablo II Clone and I don`t like that kind of pseudo RPG.
But "The Fall" looks good, seems like a modern version of Fallout.
Ok now I have 2 games on my list:
Dungeon Lords
The Fall: Last Days of Gaia
Any more to add?
@ Dhruin
To say the singleplayer experience is the essence of CRPGs is pretty much meaningless, because there is no fair way to compare decades of singleplayer CRPG culture with the relatively new multiplayer genre.
But if you look at P & P RPGs it`s completely different, "coop multiplayer" all the way. 
Finally, I would change your sentence to "There's a whole industry geared to MASSIVELY multiplayer RPGs", a big difference. |
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Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:22 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Muten
To say the singleplayer experience is the essence of CRPGs is pretty much meaningless, because there is no fair way to compare decades of singleplayer CRPG culture with the relatively new multiplayer genre.
In a world obsessed with MP where games like Battlefield 1942 dominate the PC sales charts, why you were so unable to find a suitable MP RPG to play?
As Gorath pointed out, it's an expensive excercise. It's also a difficult design excercise. Action-RPGs like Diablo, Sacred or BG:Dark Alliance on console work because they're all about simplistic combat which is easy to design a coop mode into.
One of the most compelling aspects of more complex RPGs is choice - such as meaningful choice in dialogues. Take Star Wars: KotOR as an example: there are many changes to the outcome of quests based on the dialogue choices taken by the player. How will it work in a MP environment? Mostly, you'd choose a party leader who speaks to the NPCs - which means he is playing the game and I'm tagging along to help out with some combat or the occasional special skill my char has. This is just one example of the difficulty in designing complex RPGs for multiplayer.
quote:
But if you look at P & P RPGs it`s completely different, "coop multiplayer" all the way.
Of course. However, we have to realise CRPGs are a different medium to p&p. For starters there's a live DM who can modify progression and react as necessary. The players are also physically present, making it easier to involve everyone in the process.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:25 pm |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
I never developed the slightest like for these features.
Baldurs gate and bg 2 are multiplayer. Why would you want to play them like that?
Im trying to recall other ones. Dungeon seige. I think personally this was a fad, to add multiplayer to stuff just for the hell of it. Owing to the big sales of diablo 2.
I cant stand nwn online not interesting in the least to me personally. However it is popular enough. I dont think any other crpg online was popular at all. Can the orignal poster give an example of one game like this that was interesting? |
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:06 am |
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Cm
Sentinel of Light
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 5209
Location: Missouri USA |
I will say having BG 2 for Xbox as two player was a good idea. I didn't care for the pc version at all. I don't like controling a crowd. But the two player version was fun, even if it was more simplistic than the pc. And it has single player option as well, but 2 player made it more interesting. This does mean you have to like your partner of course. 
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:03 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
If you got people together who knew what they were doing then Baldurs Gate 2 multiplayer (Not XBox, that isnt realy Baldurs Gate) then you can have a lot of fun. Especialy when each person has a single character, its very cool doing all the fighting in real-time instead of using the damn spacebar all the time.
My argument is for small party Co-op RPGs. I get bored very quickly with MMORPG, and as I have said many many many times on these boards, UO is the only good one (for reasons previously stated).
Playing small party co-op RPG's (or any mutliplayer game for that matter) is so much more fun for me when I am playing with people I know (preferably in the same room/house, so that we can realy communicate and work together. That just doesnt happen most of the time with MMORPG's.
That being said, the True Fantasy Online on the XBox has got me a little interested with its voice communication feature. But I am pretty sure that it is still going to suffer from all of the problems that the other MMORPG's suffer from. Hopefully the voice feature will get over my main problem with MMORPG's (lack of social interaction), all they need to do now is make a MMORPG thats actualy a game instead of a Level treadmill with chat features 
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:14 pm |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
I played a bit of SS2 co-op and it was fun while it lasted (and a good game for contrasting character types)... but my friend was using WSAD keys for movement, with Alt for crouch, and he hadn't remapped quicksave so it was still on Alt+S. We were only on the second or third area, and he stormed ahead into a room to bash a mutant... I warned him that there was a camera up ahead, but it was too late... he received a sound thrashing while trying to duck out of the camera's view and retreat at the same time... the result of this was that he quicksaved the game 5 or 6 times while pressing Alt and S, and upon reloading I had a great view of him crouching on the floor at the feet of an angry mutant in full view of an alerted camera, with death-by-beating only half a second away from his bewildered head. We kind of lost heart after that.
I think SS2 is a good one for MP, due to its upbeat pace and action emphasis. But I can't think of any other CRPGs I'd really want to play in MP, basically because of the problems Dhruin outlined. Story-heavy games with lots of talking and all the general mucking-about that comes with RPGs (like trading, training, messing with equipment, etc) just don't lend themselves to an enjoyable MP experience for all players. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that a game that did it successfully would have to approach lots of long-standing CRPG conventions in pretty radical ways (which wouldn't be a bad thing by any means). I'd like to see it done, but (excepting action-heavy RPGs) I don't think it has yet been done satisfactorily (having said that, I've not yet played NWN MP). |
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:27 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
I have not found a single MMORPG that I like yet. The monthly fees are my biggest problem...that and sitting around typing everything you want to say just reeks of IRC with graphics. When World of Warcraft & Middle Earth Online get released I will give them a try.
Xbox LIVE really has the potential to make a game like this thread is about. I agree with Druin that it would be hard to keep people interested if you had 4 players for instance and you had to each wade through all the dialogue of a bioware game or just follow a leader. Multiplayer with voice-chat is an absolute blast. I picked up an XBOX after 1 night of playing Mech Assault 16 player death matches with voice-chat. Phantasy Star Online is a great 4 year old game that you can do this...but it is basically a Diablo type of game. All you do is kill-stuff and level up. Diablo1&2 are a total blast to play multiplayer. True Fantasy Live might actually pull this off...I am sure you'll have a sphere of Influence like Phantasy Star Online...IE you can only talk to someone if you are within a certain range of them. I doubt this game will support thousands of players simultaneously nore will it be complex turn-based gameplay. Looks like it will be a voice-chat multiplayer Dragon Warrior light-hearted but very fun RPG.
I think that single-player games like Morrowind & Daggerfall totally smash any multiplayer RPG concepts to pieces. Hopefully, single-player RPGs don't go by the wayside with all the MMORPGs coming out.
This thread is very interesting, I really need to try Neverwinter Nights multiplayer. And system shock does sound cool.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:34 pm |
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Thormiel
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 33
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quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I have not found a single MMORPG that I like yet. The monthly fees are my biggest problem...that and sitting around typing everything you want to say just reeks of IRC with graphics. When World of Warcraft & Middle Earth Online get released I will give them a try.
How are those 2 games different from the current crop of MMOGs when it comes to player communication and monthly fee? |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:25 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
One of the most compelling aspects of more complex RPGs is choice - such as meaningful choice in dialogues. Take Star Wars: KotOR as an example: there are many changes to the outcome of quests based on the dialogue choices taken by the player. How will it work in a MP environment? Mostly, you'd choose a party leader who speaks to the NPCs - which means he is playing the game and I'm tagging along to help out with some combat or the occasional special skill my char has. This is just one example of the difficulty in designing complex RPGs for multiplayer.
Uh... not really. It's often anyone in the party who can talk to quest NPCs. Kind of like ordinary role play?
And, WHILE we're talking about CHOICE, how about CHOOSING your own dialogue? As in actually writing what you say? How about a much larger world, with more quests and places to CHOOSE from, than in regular single player games. How about being able to CHOOSE to wither trade-skill or dungeon crawl, which most MMORPGs seem to emphesize on? How about being able to CHOOSE who you want to form a party with?
As for ATMOSPHERE, I enjoy having real conversation/interaction with the some of the populance of the world, as in MMORPGs. And in limited form in MP. Both sorts at least give you a place that doesn't reek of loneliness and centering around YOUR character. How does this take away from role-playing?
quote:
I'm sorry to say it - but I'm glad. While I play NWN with friends most weekends I honestly believe the single-player experience is the essence of CRPGs.
I think single playing is a primitive form of true RPGing. A step back from the earlier PnP. You know, where the world isn't based upon AI, and where 1 person and his character isn't the only person in the world, but where you have fellow players, a DM (or in this case, GM/Developers/a GM in NWN) etc.
quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I have not found a single MMORPG that I like yet. The monthly fees are my biggest problem...that and sitting around typing everything you want to say just reeks of IRC with graphics. When World of Warcraft & Middle Earth Online get released I will give them a try.
Oh? Doesn't that make ordinary RPGs to IRC chatrooms with graphics but whithout the ability to type? Without the ability for real interaction? I feel the spenidng of money is justified when you think about the extrememly increased immersion and huge... ness of the world. Plus of course all the service and help you get from the GM teams. Plus of course that the world actually changes over time, and isn't caught in a static time-loop (replaying single-player games).
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:23 am |
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