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Windwalking
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 227
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| South East Wilderness extravaganza! (spoiler) |
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Wow! Who would have thought after beating up on Tanto Wasps along the trail to the chapel that there would be an unholy cult of insane power inside? When I saw the structured formation of Sorceress Queen and cultists, I knew I was in trouble. When I noticed that those two hulking figures with gigantic swords were not statues, but Death Lords, I figured that this would be an epic one. When I saw ALL 6 cultists summoning elementals, I was thinking "Doodoo, meet fan. Fan, doodoo."
I figured immediately that I would need to get a bunch of protection spells up, so I sidestepped behind the doorframe and hid behind the wall, and just started firing up guardian angel, soul shield, element shield, eye for an eye etc. like there was no tomorrow. By the time the first baddies were coming through the door, all 8 guys had a level 6 or 7 Guardian Angel, haste, and every shield I could think of. Still, the enemy came on, undeterred, and it ended after 7 deaths in my party, 5 of whom had been ressurected by the combat's end. The Holographic Projector saved the day, as the constant Guardian Angels prolonged everyone's lives such that the crazy elementals and death lords, who do monstrous damage every round could not kill people consistently. Eye for an Eye is AWESOME! The Death Wishes that the Death Lords kept casting (every round until they closed to within melee range) ended up rebounding and killing a total of 3 cultists and 2 elementals. The Death Lords had some crazy insanity attacks that went right through Magic Screen + Soul Shield like butter. My samurai ended up killing my Mage... TWICE! I am so glad I got Saxx the Umpani, because his Dulcimer of Healing allowed my bishop to spend his divine points on ressurection and such. And RFS-81 was stalwart, never going insane and keeping the pressure on with his 8 or so attacks per round! The Death Lords finally went down last, but not before he cast a Death Cloud which killed two of my guys right at combat's end... Well, I guess they went out with a bang.
By the end of the battle, my Bishop had 1/238 divine SP, and 3/225 water SP and 9/202 mental SP (Cure Insanity was a lifesaver), and used his ressurection amulet twice. My valkyrie had 0/103 divine SP, and had used her cheat death ability 3 times! My mage had 5/199 fire SP and 2/164 divine SP (Banish helped with the elementals). My gadgeteer had (of course) full HP but was unconscious at the end of battle (poor thing used her Holographic Projector so many times she passed out a dozen or so times during combat). I don't know how many potions of heavy stamina and healing were used, but it was plenty.
Unfortunately, both Saxx and my ranger died right before the end, so they got no XP... It was too bad too, because my ranger's last Blunder Buss bullet was what took out the final Death Lord =(
But I think my ranger will be Ok since he has a big new sword to play with 
That was a fun battle and I think I stretched the limit of how much abuse my level 13-15 party can take!
- Wind
ps: those Siges (15-24 HP) at the entrance REALLY threw me off as to the difficulty of the upcoming battle  |
Thu Aug 01, 2002 11:33 am |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
It is a great battle, and I recently made a brief reference to it in the useless spells thread - hypnotic lure helped me out here.
I'm more wowed at the level you're at when you got here. I had a much higher level party (I know it was at least 17, if not a lot more) and still had my hands full. Now part of that may be the autoleveler keeping the challenge for me. But that still doesn't take away from you're low level party's great accomplishment here. Congrats!
[Edit: I just re-read your post. Why did I think you had a lower level party here? Congrats anyway.]
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=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:29 pm |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
I went in there once with a Bard, Bishop and Lord; L11, 10, and 10. I got lucky and silenced the Cultists, i think i had both cast, i was scared. Bard's haste kicked in right away, so both got in befor any Elementals could be summoned or I-4-I's cast. My own Canned ones got the D-Lords to turn around a lot, so i cgot them from behind. I think the spell that took out the last Cultists was Whipping Rocks.
Stealth saved me, as did having snuck into MW and gone shopping at Bela, from what would have been a real disruption of my plotline. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:23 pm |
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plugh
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 14
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I can't seem to hack that part - even on easy. My party is level 12 - 14. If I wait and come back in 5 levels or so, will it be any easier? or will the enemy automatically be levelled up too? |
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Mon Aug 12, 2002 12:25 pm |
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Rhea
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 40
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Plugh, there are a lot of things that can help make the fight easier.
You can make a run for the stairs, for instance, where they have to come at you a few at a time.
Two spells that are very valuable here are Eye for an Eye and Silence.
I make sure all non-combat buffing spells are in place, including Chameleon (which can let you get closer to them before combat engages, as can a high Stealth rating). If you can cast Silence and Eye for an Eye your first round, it'll be a big help. The other thing that needs to start in the first round is insanity - the only guys this won't work on are the Death Lords, but their spells will be deflected back at them anyway courtesy of Eye for an Eye (I try to have this in potion form so as to save spell points).
If you drive some or all of the cultists insane in the first round, it'll cut down on the number of elementals they summon, since they'll be too busy frothing at the mouth.  The Sorceress Queen can also be driven insane, which puts her out of commission, but I've noticed it often takes more than one round to drive her nuts. 
Once you've got everyone foaming at the mouth or silenced, with the Death Lord's spells reflecting back at them, you can summon an elemental or two (to keep theirs busy) and move in on the Death Lords. They just take simple hack 'n slash.
You have to monitor the Eye for an Eye spell, since how long it lasts depends on your level - I usually try to cast it on another character every few rounds so I'm protected through the whole battle.
Once you've got the Death Lords taken care of, killing off the batty cultists and Queen is a snap, especially since they will be substantially down in hit points (or dead) thanks to all those reflected spells.
Last but not least, never forget that YOU can initiate combat too - if you're positioned ok, you can start the fight and get the drop on 'em. While that hasn't always worked for me, it's worked a lot, and it helps to get all your good spells off BEFORE they summon those pesky elementals. |
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Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:52 pm |
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plugh
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 14
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Thanks for the good advice. I'll try again & see what I can do.
One total newbie stupid question, how can I cast spells prior to combat? I have been clicking the sword at the bottom of the screen when just out of range, casting some spells & then walking into range. I am sure that their must be an easier way, just by clicking on the character somehow, even when not in combat.
I dodn't have eye 4 an eye as a spell, but do have it with my gadgeteer. I don't have insanity as a spell, but may have a scroll (I'll check that out when I get home tonight). I do have silence, and also a few things like sould shield and element sheild.
In fact, I will look through teh party inventory and make sure that things liek acid bombs & useful potions are being carried by teh party members best suited to use them.
I did try casting everything protective before, but the bad guys generally cast first, before I can.
I am positioned atfter the top of the steps in the little vestibule and can seem them if I peek round the corner, but I suppose I will have to rush in, if I want to get to grips with the death lords. |
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Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:31 am |
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Rhea
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 40
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The main thing I think you need to get off in the first round is Eye for an Eye and Summon Elemental, then Insanity. The elemental will take a lot of heat off you, and the spells will be reflected. Insanity in any form is cool, although it will take several rounds to drive everyboy nuts but the Death Lords. But every group you drive insane will either be imobilized or hurting each other.
Once you've got spells reflecting back and your elemental taking damage, you have the leisure to move in and hack away at those Death Lords.
Truthfully, this was the first big battle where I used Eye for an Eye consistently (I had used it on the Tree Sprites, but that was it), and it was SO much fun to watch them decimate themselves.
I can pretty much take these guys with three things now: Eye for an Eye, Summon Elemental and Insanity (a bard using Siren's Wail is nifty). The rest is hack 'n slash.
Everybody has a different style, but I've fixated on Insanity because it's so effective at immobilizing enemies (and causing them to hurt each other) and Eye for an Eye and Silence for spell casters.
Don't get too attached, though - there are some critters that it won't work on (like Nessie). But for the early to mid-game, this works like a charm. And it's just so...satisfying to see the once-fearsome Death Lords' spells bouncing back at them. |
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Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:36 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
You're right about different strategies- although, in retrospect, I think I like Rhea's plan better. I've never had a good I-4-I caster (for whatever reason, I never seem to develop a good psionic book, even with the party I started that had a psionic  ). My first round was: haste from the bard, element shield, soul shield, two canned elementals, and something else that didn't matter much. The elementals were basically damage sponges that bought me time to wipe out the cultists. My usual strategy is that 1 high level critter is less dangerous than 8 mid level critters. I did lots of fireballs, freeze fleshes, turncoats (again via the bard) and such to clear out the cultists. Once they were cleared, I went after the death lords. Quite honestly, I've never had much trouble with death lords beyond the death clouds they toss around, and those were mostly just inconvenient. I think I'm usually higher level (maybe 15 or so) when I hit that area, though. Higher levels allows you to be sloppy...
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:39 am |
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Rhea
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 40
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quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
You're right about different strategies- although, in retrospect, I think I like Rhea's plan better. I've never had a good I-4-I caster (for whatever reason, I never seem to develop a good psionic book, even with the party I started that had a psionic ). My first round was: haste from the bard, element shield, soul shield, two canned elementals, and something else that didn't matter much. The elementals were basically damage sponges that bought me time to wipe out the cultists. My usual strategy is that 1 high level critter is less dangerous than 8 mid level critters. I did lots of fireballs, freeze fleshes, turncoats (again via the bard) and such to clear out the cultists. Once they were cleared, I went after the death lords. Quite honestly, I've never had much trouble with death lords beyond the death clouds they toss around, and those were mostly just inconvenient. I think I'm usually higher level (maybe 15 or so) when I hit that area, though. Higher levels allows you to be sloppy...
If it's any help, I went through several games before I figured out about Eye for an Eye. I had it used ON me by some Tree Sprites in Trynton (and I was too stupid to notice for a round). Once my characters had picked themselves up and treated their wounds , I figured out it might be useful. The next time the Tree Sprites and I had a run-in, THEY were the ones who got fried. Bliss!
It's one of the few spells that I pick early on before the books are available for purchase. I've had a few parties wiped out on the Arnika Road by geomancers or other spellcasters (and I don't mean the northern fork either).
The first time I used it on the Temple Gang, I was practically hopping from foot to foot with glee. Give the Death Lords a few rounds and they'll substantially reduce their own HP.  |
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Wed Aug 14, 2002 7:50 pm |
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plugh
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 14
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Thanks, guys, I finally managed it. Basically, I did as you recommended. I stood outside, at a distance for the first 3 or 4 rounds and cast just about everything projective which I had, like Soul Shield and Magic Shield, etc. I sued a scroll of haste and a bottle which contained an elemental; I threw a few acid bombs; I cast Razor Cloak and used whatever potion it is which makes my stealth characters even tsealthier; I cast silence and Armor Plate; and hex - but - no aggressive spells, because the bad guys had Eye for an Eye.
Yes, you are right, Eye for an Eye was a great saviour for me - BUT I only had it from my Gadgeteer and his polished plate. I still don't have a character who knows it.
My main magic users are a Lord and a Bishop. The Bishop, especially (L 13 or 14) is powerful in all realms but, although I have the spell book, he still can't read it. How did you guys get the spell so early?
Am I making a mistake using combined characters, like Lord & Bishop? Should I use 'pure' magic users, like Priest, Mage & Psionic?
I had read that combined characters could be more powerful & they seemed the only way to cram everything that I wanted into the party. I would appreciate your advice as I am already planning a second go around. |
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Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:58 am |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
To learn spells, you have to have both Caster level and Skill points. Skill points are the School (like Psionics) plus 10% of the Realm (like Divine, which confused me at first; there's a School, Divinity, also called 'Priest" as well as a Realm, Divine). Caster level is the number of levels you've been able to learn the School in question. (can be Hybrid level minus 4) For each Spell level, then:
Spell Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Caster L. 1 3 5 8 12 14 18
Skill points 0 15 30 45 60 75 90
There's also a spreadsheet, i forgot whose (Mage77?), but there's a bunch of links to it on threads like this one; check Links and/or Search for Spell Learning. |
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Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:17 am |
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plugh
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 14
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As far I can remember, I have about 50 points in each school & can cast over 100 in each realm (200 in air & water) with my bishop, but staill can't read that darned eye for an eye book ! |
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Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:30 am |
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Rhea
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 40
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quote:
Originally posted by otter
To learn spells, you have to have both Caster level and Skill points. Skill points are the School (like Psionics) plus 10% of the Realm (like Divine, which confused me at first; there's a School, Divinity, also called 'Priest" as well as a Realm, Divine). Caster level is the number of levels you've been able to learn the School in question. (can be Hybrid level minus 4) For each Spell level, then:
Spell Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Caster L. 1 3 5 8 12 14 18
Skill points 0 15 30 45 60 75 90
There's also a spreadsheet, i forgot whose (Mage77?), but there's a bunch of links to it on threads like this one; check Links and/or Search for Spell Learning.
Try here:
http://wiz8.web1000.com/perko.html
There's a link to Wolfie's spreadsheet there, along with a detailed explanation |
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Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:12 pm |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
How do you put links in your posta? |
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Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:32 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Just copy and paste the url in. (Make sure HTML is enabled.) Look at the forum FAQ for more info. It's at the top of the page.
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Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:50 am |
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