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Ugly_Prayer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 38
Location: Sinking Fast |
NOT. It is an illusion. (Let it be known: at this point in human development, there are no wrong answers.)
I say due to our tiny brain, and our knowledge of almost less than nothing of the Universe, let alone our VERY - SELF, as in: consciousness... calling the Human Race: "fu*ktards" would be a surpreme compliment. At least within the context of Universal knowledge.
The punchline is: the "BASS" in our voice when we speak of so many things.
My own guess is: the Universe is more musical -than- physical(?)
Though: Ich bin eine fu*ktard too. 
What say you...?
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What I am I am, and say not. Being is the great explainer.
-Thoreau |
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:19 pm |
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Mercenary
Helpful Friend
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 2874
Location: Chromanin |
I didn't quite understand what you wanted too say with this .. could you explain a bit better ?
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Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:57 pm |
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Fez
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 08 Dec 2001
Posts: 240
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Remember kids, alcohol and philosophy do not mix.
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“Everyone’s a girl when they’re face down.” |
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Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:20 am |
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Ugly_Prayer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 38
Location: Sinking Fast |
quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Remember kids, alcohol and philosophy do not mix.
 When the discussion steers toward "true reality" I do not believe that thought and philosophy mix.  Since I am in rare form this morning -serious and sober, I'll attempt to make a "real" and valid point. It's a simple and old point. We, as in humanity: do not know what consciousness is. Aware -sure, but what is it that is aware? We, as in humanity: do not know what the Universe is. Thus, we, as in humanity: know neither what we are, nor where we are at.
However, there are two things within the very nature of humanity that RULE. One is a thirst for knowledge, and the other is fear. Knowledge is the mother of science and philosophy. Fear is the father of religion. Heinlein said that self-aware mankind could not accept the thought of its own extinction. Thus there are 10k religions in the world.
As for science and philosophy... always looking for some THING. Some concrete thought or equation that will render the utimate idea. The ultimate answer. I think they miss the point. It's not the ulitimate thought or ultimate answer. As a wise philospher once said, "The answer we are looking for is - what is looking?"
I hope this is a bit more clear than my Merry Prankster babble in the previous post. And I should have placed quotation marks areound both "reality" and "not." But maybe not?
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What I am I am, and say not. Being is the great explainer.
-Thoreau |
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Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:56 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Ugly_Prayer, whether sober or not, please try to watch your language. The English language provides plenty of alternatives. 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:57 pm |
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Ugly_Prayer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 38
Location: Sinking Fast |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
Ugly_Prayer, whether sober or not, please try to watch your language. The English language provides plenty of alternatives.
I will do so. Sorry about that. 
_________________
What I am I am, and say not. Being is the great explainer.
-Thoreau |
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Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:56 pm |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
Actually, none of this is real. We're all figments of my cat's imagination.
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Charlie Dobbie
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Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:04 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by cfmdobbie
Actually, none of this is real. We're all figments of my cat's imagination.
*My* cat would disagree 
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:20 pm |
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maic_ro
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Always at work |
This is to heavy for me but if you really expect an answer to your question I promiss I will start reading more and maby after that .... but not now; now I'll drink
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The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
-- Somerset Maugham |
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Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:06 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
You need to check out Ayn Rand if you want to really get into this sort of thing.
http://www.ayn-rand.com/ayn-rand-objectivism.asp
"Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears."
— Ayn Rand, "Introducing Objectivism" The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 8 August, 1962 p. 35
excerpt from Ayn Rand site-
Relativism and objective reality
Today, especially in university departments of literature, there are some fashionable "postmodernists" who claim that we create reality with words, in our own minds. This view is an instance of a position that has frequently reappeared in philosophy: metaphysical relativism or idealism. It is the view that, ultimately, nothing is real except in relation to our perceiving it or thinking of it.
But reality is not a function of our ideas. It exists, and it is what it is, regardless of whether we want it to be or not. Denying this is the intellectual equivalent of closing one's eyes while driving down the highway. Car crashes do not happen just because one believes they do; they often happen even when we wish them not to. Facts are facts, independently of us. This is why things happen that surprise us. It is why science has been the process of establishing the truth about nature without regard for our preconceptions. It is why babies have to learn: they are discovering the world "out there." Things in reality have real properties and exert causal powers without regard for us and our knowledge of them. Ayn Rand summed up this attitude to reality as the principle of the primacy of existence.
"The primacy of existence (of reality) is the axiom that existence exists," wrote Ayn Rand in "The Metaphysical versus the Man-Made," "i.e., that the universe exists independent of consciousness (of any consciousness), that things are what they are, that they possess a specific nature, an identity. The epistemological corollary is the axiom that consciousness is the faculty of perceiving that which exists—and that man gains knowledge by looking outward." Consciousness (i.e., the mind) is in essence a faculty of awareness. We are aware of the world around us through sense-perceptions, of course, but even in our abstract and theoretical knowledge we function primarily through identification of how things are. To give a simple example, we decide whether to say "that is a yellow house," but we know that what makes that statement knowledge, rather than hot air, is whether or not it identifies a house that really is yellow.
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“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:06 pm |
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