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| Did the Moon Landings happen |
| Yes |
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78% |
[ 18 ] |
| No |
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21% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Myrthos
I'll let you in on a secret.... actually RPGDot doesn't exisit. It's just a big hoax designed to lure you all into the twilight zone, which will turn you all into evil criiters starring in the next Fallout 3 game.
Damn...all the typing I've done here over the last year for nothing. I bags being a Mutant. |
Tue May 27, 2003 7:11 am |
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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
quote:
Originally posted by Myrthos
I'll let you in on a secret.... actually RPGDot doesn't exisit. It's just a big hoax designed to lure you all into the twilight zone, which will turn you all into evil criiters starring in the next Fallout 3 game.
Wow, technology today is amazing!
_________________
This box secretly turns into a picture and laughs at YOU personally when you're not looking. |
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Tue May 27, 2003 3:18 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Okay, I've been following this thread on an off and on again basis ....
A thought as to the hoax hypothesis (*not* a theory) - Since the faked films and radio transmissions had to be broadcast from the surface of the moon (the US not being the only country with receivers) and since many other countries have high powered radar capable of tracking the progress of a space launch for the hoax hypothisis to be accurate either:
1. the US would've had to have launched a broacast unit, safely landed it, had explorers out and make changes to the surface (yes some of the effects are visisble ... at least from orbit), and had some really GREAT script writers to give it that 'authentic' feel or ....
2. Get the rest of the world to go along with the hoax.
I think Occam has something to say about this one!
@Myrthos - Really? Cool! I never would've guessed **Grin**
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Tue May 27, 2003 3:41 pm |
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Finarfin
Baron of the Court
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London |
i think both ideas are plausable, i think it would be possible to fake the moon landings and get away with it (although i wouldn't say this is what i believe).
and Occums razor is just an scientific methodology and it doesn't prove anything (sorry, just being a philosophy student, making sure all the terms are right)
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I didn't get where i am today by talking in clichés, i avoid clichés like the plague, a cliché to me is like a red rag to a bull..... |
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Tue May 27, 2003 5:26 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
If anyone has ever been to the moon, it has to be Alice Kramden |
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Tue May 27, 2003 8:27 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Max Killen
If anyone has ever been to the moon, it has to be Alice Kramden
Good one!
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Tue May 27, 2003 8:32 pm |
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Hyrrix
Fourty-two
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 282
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quote:
Originally posted by Finarfin
and Occums razor is just an scientific methodology and it doesn't prove anything (sorry, just being a philosophy student, making sure all the terms are right)
But philosophers usually differ in their opinions, right?  Why can't you get Occam into this? It has been used before, for example against the "force radiale" of Teilhard de Chardin and "l'élan vital" of Henri Bergson: it is possible that it would be true, but there's no reason at all why you should invent another mysterious force to explain evolution, if Darwin already did so in much easier terms and with empiric data to back him up.
I mean: why on earth would they fake the moon landing? The reason why they went their was scientific research in the first place; prestige in the second place. Even so, I don't believe anyone really had something to say about why they would fake it. Would there be any technical reason why they didn't get on the moon? If not, what would be the use? Faking a moonlanding just to be first, to get your enemies to prove a few months later that it was all fake; doesn't really make sense, imho. All that and Lintra's stuff of course.
Did anyone see that move about the Australian telescape that was responsible for the broadcast of the moonlanding? Was called "The Dish" or something... funny movie (but all critics seemed to hate it, meheh).[/list]
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Vault Network Editor |
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Wed May 28, 2003 3:08 pm |
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Finarfin
Baron of the Court
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London |
because Occums Razor, cannot be used to prove ANYTHING, it is only used as a guide to what should be further investigated next, start with the simplest solution first....
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I didn't get where i am today by talking in clichés, i avoid clichés like the plague, a cliché to me is like a red rag to a bull..... |
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Wed May 28, 2003 3:12 pm |
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Hyrrix
Fourty-two
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 282
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Agreed, it can't "prove" anything; but none of us can here, we're just speculating. The thing is that it isn't likely that the moon landing was fake as long as it hasn't adequately proven to be something wrong with it. As long as there's no reason to asume that it didn't take place, the burden of proof is all on the non-believers; not the other way round.
No?
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Vault Network Editor |
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Wed May 28, 2003 4:03 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Hyrrix
Agreed, it can't "prove" anything; but none of us can here, we're just speculating. The thing is that it isn't likely that the moon landing was fake as long as it hasn't adequately proven to be something wrong with it. As long as there's no reason to asume that it didn't take place, the burden of proof is all on the non-believers; not the other way round.
No?
Good point, well stated.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Wed May 28, 2003 4:09 pm |
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Finarfin
Baron of the Court
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London |
you are correct, No.
just using the "the Burden Of Proof" arguement is an easy way of avoiding confronting the issues raised by the doubters. is is plausable that men have been on the moon but is also plausable that is was faked, both theories rely on complex solutions, you say that there is "no reason to assume that [the moon landings] didn't take place" but that is simply dismissing the arguement out of hand, the doubters have raised issues that have not been fully explained away, and if someone wants to prove that the landings did take place then they should confront those issues.
Occums Razor is often used incorrectly, it doesn't state that the simplest solution is the true solution, or even that the simplest solution is the likely solution, just that is you are trying to find the solution, you should investigate the simplest theory first. it is only if you have 2 competing theories that produce identical results AND you are unable to verify the truth of either should you assume that the simplest is true. and anyway which is the simplest theory in this case is open for debate.
personally i suspect the moon landings did take place, but i wouldn't bet money on it, sort of the opposite of my feelings on the existance of god
_________________
I didn't get where i am today by talking in clichés, i avoid clichés like the plague, a cliché to me is like a red rag to a bull..... |
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Wed May 28, 2003 4:31 pm |
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Hyrrix
Fourty-two
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 282
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I see... I don't think we differ too much in opinions. Fact is that neither of us here can claim to absolutely know if these accusations made by some people are correct or not. So, you say that Occam just tells us that the second option (the moonlandings did not take place) has to be investigated too, but we simply can't do that because we aren't experts. So of course if tomorrow some lab with authority comes over with convincing facts and arguments, I'll sure believe them; and I'd encourage them to do research in these types of claims. But as long as that doesn't happen and we can't do research ourselves, it seems logical to me to believe the people with authority on this subject and to choose the explanation that is the most "full". The "believers" maybe have some things yet to proof, as you say, but the "non-believer"-theory has a lot of holes in it... the most important ones of them being: why and how.
If I put coffee and water in my coffee machine, switch it on, and come back 30 minutes later to see that it made me some fine cups of coffee; which theory would you find to be easiest to believe:
(1) I say that my coffee-machine made my coffee.
(2) I say that pink aliens from Mars came down from the sky, took the water out of my coffee machine and transformed it into coffee.
In my opinion, Occam would say that there's no need to get the pink aliens in this, as the concept of the coffee machine alone explains the situation fully. So I'd believe (1). You'd probably disagree and say that Occam does not prove that, and only says that you should do research on the probability of (2). True, probably; but who'll say that pink aliens actually didn't land to make my coffee?
Conclusion: I'm alright with spending research time in (2), but as long as no-one can give me proof of a. the existence of pink aliens; b. explain me how these pink aliens landed and disappeared without a trace; c. explain me why they would make coffee for me; as long as no-one can give answers to these questions, I'd prefer to believe (1).
Stupid example, I know, but then again I'm not a philosophy-student
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Wed May 28, 2003 5:05 pm |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
[quote="Roach"]
quote:
Originally posted by Gothic Soul
...but I have to say please use your english class skills...
*confused*
Alright...
quote:
Originally posted by Gothic Soul
Did the moon landings happened?
NO, as sad as it is [,] the United States is filled with a lot of historie Lies. [The] United states has always lived [in] a fantasy[;] lots of the things that the United States Historie tells half of them are lies. [The]United States create their historie and they create bit based on lies[,] just to make the other say: WOW what a great Historie the US has. IMHO, United states historie is not even half as good as the old world['s] (EUROPE, ETC...) history is. I'm from the United States but I have no faith in them. My opinions are based on books and historie books I've read. These landings has never happened[,] that was stated by [the] Discovery channel in a documental[,] too.
quote:
Originally posted by Roach
 Do you believe everything you see on TV?
So you took your time putting that on WORD to spell check it??? Anyway I have reason for that because English is a language I'm learning right now and compared to many of the people who's primary language isn't their primary language I spell it very well. Just remember I'm just joking with you a little so don't take it to the heart.
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"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Thu May 29, 2003 4:03 am |
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Finarfin
Baron of the Court
Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 345
Location: London |
you are right about the pink aliens not needing any investigation because given our previous empirical knowledge makes this theory very very unlikely, the difference is this that both sides of the moon landings arguement are plausable, hence both sides should be fully investigated.....
_________________
I didn't get where i am today by talking in clichés, i avoid clichés like the plague, a cliché to me is like a red rag to a bull..... |
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Thu May 29, 2003 11:09 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
...that both sides of the moon landings arguement are plausable, hence both sides should be fully investigated.....
I disagree. It is not plausable (sp?) that a goverment would try to pull of a hoax of that nature. Nor is it reasonable to assume that anyone would try. The number of conspirators would be soooo high that there would be a leak - the gamble would not be worth it.
So one might as well posit that the little pink aliens put NASA up to making the con job 
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Thu May 29, 2003 1:02 pm |
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