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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
| Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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Do you think something like time travel is even possible? Would you be tempted to use it if it was available, and what would you most likely do?
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Erb Duchenne |
Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:01 pm |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
I don't think time travel will ever be posible, it would just be to strange.
Then you would have to be really carefull not to disrupt anything or it would change the present time. Going to the future would be safer for the timeline but not for yourself, itwould be a complete mistory.
If timetravel would ever be invented, would we not know it by now, or met somebody who went trough their past (our time).
It would be nice to use it the figure out questions from the past, maybe if you wolud not become visable to the past. That could be the only way i think. Otherwise we should have noticed something by now.
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Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:52 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
| Re: Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Erb Duchenne
Do you think something like time travel is even possible? Would you be tempted to use it if it was available, and what would you most likely do?
Erb have You now been watching the newer movie Time machine? since You bring up such a question?
Do I believe??? For now...NO! First we must have an answer to if Time really is a dimension like the known 3 dimensions in which we can move inside. The "best" theory today is that hitting light speed or close to it, will alter the speed of time considerable, like spending 5 min in light speed would approximately be the same as a couple of month on earth or more! Some experts claim to have found evidence from experiences with tests on the upsending rockets which topspeed is like 20000-30000 miles per hour. They claim they can proof time distortion of seconds compared to earth time!
Well on all this theory, they build another theory, that says, if you getting closer to light speed, the time will be slower compared to earth time, so if you ever exceed lightspeed the time would reverse!!! I don't think the last theory is valid, but it's ofcourse only a guess I can make. However more interesting is teleporting through space. Move around in the 3 dimensions we know, without using time to do it. Hyperspeed as they call it in scifi movies. Again it would mean an insane high performance in speed (much higher than lightspeed), and probably no living creature could survive it, in it's normal presents, so you probably have to disintegrete people into controlled small energy particles (Like beaming from the startrek teleporter)
and then send them on their way with high speed, and somehow regenerate the beeing when it has arrived on it's destination. If it ever will get possible, i think it still will be very far out in the future! But you mind really can spin off when thinking on all these incredible possibilities it would lead to!
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Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:00 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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The concept of "time travelling" as is commonly known does not make sense, IMHO. If one were to go to the past, or the future through whatever means, then only the body of the person would travel to the past. What that means is that the person would "grow younger" (not literally, of course), while the world around him would still remain the same -- much like what will happen to astronauts when they finally travel to Mars. To travel in time as we often see in movies, one of two things would have to happen. First, not only the person, but the entire world itself would have to be transported through time -- and even then, we have no proof that the objects and environment around us would transform to what they were back then. A box lying on the table on the present could very well still be lying on the table if transported 200 years back in time -- except now the box and table "ages" would be different. Second, to travel back in time to, say, watch first-hand the American independence would require one to go to an alternate dimension (much like we believe is possible is one "enters" a black hole), because the very presence of a person in a past environment would alter the air around the person, the grass where the person stepped, and so on. That could have serious consequences for the future of that dimension, completely changing its future.
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Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:28 pm |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
Well, I think it depends on what your concept of time travel is. It's hard to believe, I realise, and it's not something I, or anyone for that matter, can comprehend fully, but I try to keep an open mind.
The concept most people have when you mention 'time travel' is of course a machine which will play with time the same way a VCR does movies, fast forward or rewind to your desired point in time then go back to normal 'play'. That's certainly an easy way to try to understand it. But as long as you're talking speeds and C then that's a whole different concept than most will be used to.
If we could use a telescopic device to view a planet in a system 4 billion light years away, we'd see what it was like 4 billion years ago, because that's how long the light took to arrive here. If you speed away from earth at twice the speed of light, you'll be catching up with light which left earth before you launched and in a way be travelling back in time. If you were transported instantaneously to the planet 4 billion light years away, you'll be able to see what happened on earth 4 billion years ago... or so it goes.
But lets say the conventional understanding was possible. How come we haven't had visitors from the future? I know, that would be compelling evidence. But really, what's to say it hasn't?
I can imagine those visitors have an interest of 'seeing and not touching'. What would you have them do? Run around shouting, "I'm from the future!" Well, a few people have done that and I've seen them in Psychiatric wards.
Why not share technology with us? Maybe they do and have been. Maybe Dean Kamen had a visitor who described to him the Segwey. Maybe he IS from the future. Who knows? Then again, maybe he's not, and time travel is not possible. Okay, but how come they never impart more futuristic technology and ideas? Well, logically, it would be very difficult. Imagine you going back in time and trying to explain to Plato some rocket science. It would only be a waste of time and effort. But build him a crude bicycle and he may be able to copy and improve on the design. See, the problem is THEIR level of technology, understanding and whether they can understand and make use of what knowledge you give them.
So IS time travel possible? I don't know. WILL it be possible in the future? I don't know. COULD it be possible at all? I don't know. Okay, sounds very weak. But really anyone who claims they KNOW it CAN or CANNOT be done, is a liar! (Okay, unless the say IT CAN and have done it.)
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Erb Duchenne |
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Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:09 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Interesting reply. I must make a couple of comments, though. First, regarding us seeing what happened on Earth billions of years ago. Well, I can be done in theory, but again, that's not time travel, as we would only be watching what happened -- kind of watching in TV a speech that JFK delivered years ago; we don't need to time travel to see reflections of the past. Second, travelling at twice the speed of light, as you mentioned, is something that really cannot be discussed. We really really really don't know if we'll "be catching up with light which left earth before you launched and in a way be travelling back in time." Since it falls outside the boundaries of the current accepted paradigm, all sorts of weird effects could conceivably happen when travelling at that speed. Just look at what happens around naked singularities: the laws of physics as we currently see are twisted and no longer apply. And perhaps Einstein was right and, no matter what we do, we'll never be able to travel faster than the speed of light -- we'll perhaps be able to travel quickly using wormholes and such... but that's cheating. 
And one last thing: if visitors from the future really are among us, wouldn't their very presence here distort their past? As such, their present -- our future -- would have changed, thus perhaps changing the very conditions which brought them from the future. That means he perhaps could not have come from the future, or could only come under different conditions than he did... causing, in the words of Doc from 'Back to the Future', a disruption in the 'space-time continuum'. In other words, going back to the past alters the present, which then changes the very conditions under which you went to the past. Confusing, but taking all this into account, I cannot possibly see how time travel is possible, be it during the next century, or during the next million years. Although I most of the time like to keep a open mind (really, I do  ), but in this case I simply can't.
edit: spelling
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:52 pm |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
quote:
Originally posted by goshuto
And one last thing: if visitors from the future really are among us, wouldn't their very presence here distort their past? As such, their present -- our future -- would have changed, thus perhaps changing the very conditions which brought them from the future.
 Well, maybe the future will exist because they did come to the past? Because in their future, they were in and did affect history? Alternately, there's the theory of infinite timelines from the infinite possibilities, each causing an alternate timeline.
Of course, unlike Doc Brown in the Back to the Future movies, newspaper articles and photographs don't instantaneously change because the present is affecting the future. That was just the engine which they illustrated graphically what was in fact happening on what would have been extremely difficult to follow otherwise.
I don't believe or disbelieve time travel. I'm a man of proof. And time travel hasn't been proven, or disproved to me yet.
I'm not trying to change your beliefs in time travel, but your discussion is interesting nevertheless. You could go crazy just hinking about the possibilities of time travel. 
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Erb Duchenne |
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Fri Dec 13, 2002 9:53 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I can't add anything too specific to this so I just throw in my opinions. I simply can't see time-travel as possible.
As I can grasp it, to travel back in time would require the simultaneous existance of every moment in time, which doesn't work for me. Also the paradox from potential "changes" to history presents a conceptual difficulty for me.
Still...perhaps time will tell.  |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:33 am |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by Erb Duchenne
You could go crazy just hinking about the possibilities of time travel.
I think I already am.
_________________
"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:52 pm |
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hwfanatic
Average Fanatic
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 2850
Location: Belgrade, Serbia |
| Re: Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
The "best" theory today is that hitting light speed or close to it, will alter the speed of time considerable, like spending 5 min in light speed would approximately be the same as a couple of month on earth or more! Some experts claim to have found evidence from experiences with tests on the upsending rockets which topspeed is like 20000-30000 miles per hour. They claim they can proof time distortion of seconds compared to earth time!
Well on all this theory, they build another theory, that says, if you getting closer to light speed, the time will be slower compared to earth time, so if you ever exceed lightspeed the time would reverse!!!
First, nothing can exceed the speed of light. I thought scientist agreed on this one. Second, even if something could, time still won't reverse; it can only come to a standstill(if you're traveling at exact speed of light). Time is something apstract, and can only go forward. Therefore I think traveling to the past is not possible.
But you can travel into future. Suppose you start a journey from Earth, in a spaceship that attains c=3*10^5km/s. For you time wouldn't pass at all, but for guys on Earth it would. Suppose you come back after 20 earth years to Earth, your generation will be considerably older than you and you get the impression you are in the future.. Imagine the disapointment of not being able to go back
Last edited by hwfanatic on Mon Dec 16, 2002 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:33 am |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
| Re: Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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quote:
Originally posted by HWFanatiC
First, nothing can exceed the speed of light. I thought scientist agreed on this one. Second, even if something could, time still won't reverse; it can only come to a standstill...
Well, yes and no. I think the term 'scientist' no longer can be used as a general 'blanket' of people. An example: scientists create genetically modified (GM) fruit and vegetables to save world hunger. Environmentalists and health advocates oppose use of GM in foods. Environmentalists and health people are scientists. Thus scientists say yes and no to GM.
But about light, yes that's the generally accepted rule even since Einstein's time. However, a lot of Einstein's theories were mocked at and thought untrue until very much later, just as Copernicus and Galileo in their times. Seeing this, perhaps in the future our undertsanding and theories about time and time travel will be different from today.
In any case, aren't we ALL travelling through time? At one second every second?
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Erb Duchenne |
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Wed Dec 18, 2002 8:56 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
| Re: Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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quote:
Originally posted by HWFanatiC
quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
The "best" theory today is that hitting light speed or close to it, will alter the speed of time considerable, like spending 5 min in light speed would approximately be the same as a couple of month on earth or more! Some experts claim to have found evidence from experiences with tests on the upsending rockets which topspeed is like 20000-30000 miles per hour. They claim they can proof time distortion of seconds compared to earth time!
Well on all this theory, they build another theory, that says, if you getting closer to light speed, the time will be slower compared to earth time, so if you ever exceed lightspeed the time would reverse!!!
First, nothing can exceed the speed of light. I thought scientist agreed on this one. Second, even if something could, time still won't reverse; it can only come to a standstill(if you're traveling at exact speed of light). Time is something apstract, and can only go forward. Therefore I think traveling to the past is not possible.
But you can travel into future. Suppose you start a journey from Earth, in a spaceship that attains c=3*10^5km/s. For you time wouldn't pass at all, but for guys on Earth it would. Suppose you come back after 20 earth years to Earth, your generation will be considerably older than you and you get the impression you are in the future.. Imagine the disapointment of not being able to go back
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Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:10 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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| Re: Time Travel: Is it possible? |
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quote:
Originally posted by HWFanatiC
First, nothing can exceed the speed of light. I thought scientist agreed on this one.
That's the currently accepted paradigm. It's based on empirical observation, true, but it can change in the future, just as physics paradigms have changed in the past.
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:39 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Clearly it is possible. |
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:36 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Damn, it's bit to far away from me, besides I don't got the time
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Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:27 am |
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