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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Gothic 2 Gold: Review @ GameShark |
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GameShark has posted a <a href="http://www.gameshark.com/index.asp?t=c&a=reviews&id=2244" target="_blank">review</a> of Gothic II Gold with obvious criticisms of the interface but more perplexingly, harsh critisism of the "crippling" slow place and excessive dialogue (!). The final score is 'C+' and here's the intro:<blockquote><em>A truly satisfying RPG is a scarce commodity these days. Unlike many other genres in PC gaming such as the First Person Shooter, a quality RPG worthy of praise only comes along once every blue moon. This, perhaps, is due in part to a more critical and detail-conscious consumer base. Fewer developers are willing to take a stab at creating open-ended role playing games, but when they do the RPG community busts out the magnifying glasses in anticipation of what we hope to be the next great RPG. Lately, I’ve had my scope focused on Piranha Bytes’ Gothic II Gold, which includes the original Gothic II plus the Night of the Raven expansion pack. After giving the game a run, I can genuinely say it had potential to be something great, but with a few major design flaws it fails to be anything more than mediocre.</em></blockquote> |
Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
Let us quickly forget the christmas thought and visit their office. 
Yes, I must admit the things they say about the interface, but you get used to it. The same goes for fighting.
quote:
Originally posted by reviewer
A major drawback to the game is the fact that it takes a tremendous amount of time to progress your character through quests and leveling. After several hours of playtime, I was suddenly hit with the realization that I really hadn’t gotten anything done yet.
And still he's talking as if he has played the entire game. He plays the gold edition, but I doubt that he has seen Jharkendar. The screens in the article are all official, so I'm very curious. 
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:35 am |
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Guest
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He's probably one of those who gave Morrowind A++
If he thinks Gothic 2 has too much dialogue, he should try playing Planescape: Torment... now THAT's alot of dialogue. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:44 am |
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slak
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Location: Sweden |
I pretty much love everything that he pointed out as flaws in the game.
Whoever wrote the article should go play an FPS instead. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:48 am |
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lilithn
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Budapest, Hungary |
I agree. He should see Planescape Torment. The amount of dialogue in that game worth half a book. Which is not bad at all for an RPG in my opinion. 
Gothic 2  rocks! This guy doesn't know what he is talking about! That game is one of the more intelligent, enjoyable RPGs. I agree with slak, he should be playing an FPS! Or Fable probably. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:12 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
I agree Slak. The negatives really are positives.
quote:
A major drawback to the game is the fact that it takes a tremendous amount of time to progress your character through quests and leveling. After several hours of playtime, I was suddenly hit with the realization that I really hadn’t gotten anything done yet. The game moves at a crippling slow pace. The sluggish pace can become very disappointing for those that only have an hour or two to play at a time.
Clearly, a comparison is being made here to a CRPG-Lite game such as Diablo 2, which is short on story and depth, but long on fast paced combat. Each type of game offers a differnt type of entertainment. But quite frankly, there are enough CRPG-Lites out there and games that are slower and deeper such as Gothic II are very much welcome as far as I'm concerned.
quote:
The most unusual part of Gothic II is its perplexing interface design. I’m unsure how the development team came to the conclusion that not having a mouse cursor in the game was a good idea, but somehow they did.
I have to admit, when I played Gothic 1 I struggled a bit with the UI. But this point comes up in just about every review of a Gothic game and it has been beaten to death... and in the end the UI is actually quite effective... it just isn't common so you have to actually have some patience and become accustomed to it. If Gothic's UI was ineffective, then I'd have to agree. But the UI is in fact very effective, so I don't know why the devs. get a minus here instead of a plus.
quote:
Fighting in the game is surprisingly difficult early on. It’s difficult to the point where it is more of an annoyance than anything else. The fighting controls are almost as perplexing as the interface set up. To attack, you have to hold down the alt key (by default) and press the forward and side arrows to swing your weapon or shoot your bow. Every time your character levels up he gains an insignificant bonus to his health, without any boost to stat points. Instead you are given learning points (LPs) which are used to increase stats such as strength and dexterity to name a few. Also, finding good weapons and armor that can be equipped early on is about as likely as George W. Bush pronouncing the word “terrorist” correctly. It simply isn’t going happen. About half way through the game things begin to get easier, but prepare to be dismembered by dragon flies and mole rats early on.
First off, this guy makes a huge mistake incorporting a political comment in a game review - he's going to alienate half his readers. But anyway, I think the difficult combat is a good thing. Maybe my only criticism would be that the design of the game lacks better control for the player when fighting multiple monsters... guess the reviewer would rather waste a sentence poking fun at Bush than state one criticism many would agree with. I'm reminded of some of the earlier Ultima games such as Ultima IV and Ultima V where you really became scared when that Daemon appeared on the screen because they were tough to beat... Gothic is one of few games that re-create that tension and I think that's quite entertaining.
code:
The game is decent from a graphical standpoint, but it demands a lot from your computer to run smoothly – even on medium settings. The lighting and changes from nighttime to daytime were done very well. As far as sound goes, the music in the background is often aesthetically pleasing. In the city, you can hear people talking and having full conversations with each other which adds a lot to the immersion.
This is one of those staple comments you see in many game reviews. It's that damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing. If a game has bad graphics the reviewer will chastize the game for that. If the game has great graphics (for its time) then the comments about the game being a resource hog and slow will be stated. Yawn.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:49 pm |
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dagoo77
Guest
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So, in other words ... It would be a great open-end rpg if it was just a lot more like God of War for the PS2. Brilliant analysis.
While I generally have respect for others opinions, I think its pretty clear he didn't spend much time playing. Admittedly, when I picked up the first Gothic, I was so confused by the interface, could barely open a chest, much less fight anything. However, you quickly get used to it.
And the argument about it being slow paced is silly given the open-end nature of the world. It does take a huge amount of time to orient yourself to the game and find where you need to be and what you need to do at your lvl to progress. But this is the very nature of an open-ended game. Once you reach a certain point and familiarize yourself with your environs, theres almost too much stuff to do and to keep you interested. At that point the game starts flying and you are utterly surprised when you look down and you've already put 50+ hours in are still in Chapter 2. That's not slow-paced to me, thats an extremely good value.
Unlike with most games, once I got into the Gothic games, I never got bored and also unlike other games which are significantly shorter or smaller in scope, I actually finished it, more than once at that. I probably would have had the same reaction if I had given up on Gothic after struggling with the interface and the initial confusion resulting from the lack of clear direction in a huge world. However, I would not have deigned to publish a review of the game and dismiss it as if I had played it to the hilt. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:56 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
I'm now in Chapter 4 of the 'Gold' edition, and though I've played 'normal' Gothic 2 tons over the past couple of years, I can still remember the first time playing, how difficult and unforgiving it was if you strayed from the path, and how the controls took time to master. But, like so many early computer games, persevering brought rewards - you hit your stride after a while, learn what to try and what *not* to try, and you really appreciate the pacing and unfolding nature of the story. And the controls become second nature.
Mike
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:45 pm |
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Mute71__
Guest
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Hm, here i am almost euphoric. Playing the last great RPG of all time. (okey, maybe to much). I have trouble finding time playing games these days. No games really captivates me. Bought Gothic II when it came out. Tried to play it, got frustrated. Stopped in chapter II (was convinced i had to battle all creatures all the time, and only go were i was "allowed" (a little might and magic dented, i know!).
Tried two times more and always stopped after a while in khorinis. Bought Gothic this summer and played it in my vacation, was totally amazed. Tried gothic II directly after. Nah. Now, bought Gothic II gold. (Also has two copies of gothic 2 since my first order of gothic was an error...  ).
Anyway, now. I said to my self. PLAY THIS GAME; Play through chapter one. Atleast.
And now. I got it. Somehow. I got it. You shall not fight everything. Creatures is stronger and they still are. Have played this game all my free time since christmas. It takes time, but wow. What a ride. Last night i would not want to stop. When i went to sleep, i wanted to sleep fast so i could play some more. (Hey, i am 35, i should not feel like this! ).
Anyway, when i read the review. I just thought. He didn't get it. He bashed one of the greatest rpg because he didn't get it.
Well, Me a fanboy. Love gothic.
(He did review NFS: MW and said it was accessable so perhaps he has no time to play games Just review them!) |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:58 pm |
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Ratavuk
Noble Knight
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 213
Location: I-Net |
Thank god not everyone likes the same sort of games. This reviewer obviously likes dumbed down games, that's ok but he shouldn't insult people who don't like dumbed down shit and tell them that the game is at least shitty because he has no patience and brain for realizing what a great game he is about to critizice. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:04 pm |
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indigo1980
Village Dweller
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4
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its a pathetic ignorant, probably some harry potters fan, who wrote this review Gothic serie is best! |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:34 pm |
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Wildefire
General Goods Vendor
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
Location: USA |
Yeah, it really sounds like their RPG reviewer was on vacation when this review was due. I'm a big fan of both Gothics and I felt both Gothic II's difficulty and its pace were critical components of what made it so immersive. It was HARD to achieve certain goals, and did take time and planning (I can't remember how many too-early attempts I made on those robbers at the lighthouse) but once you finally accomplished something all the hard work made it feel truly worthwhile.
Plus, once I WAS strong enough it felt damn good to go back and kick the ass of every living thing that had troubled me earlier.
I always wondered about the controls- whether the Gothics had been designed as possible console titles (keyboard-based controls make more sense there, what with all those buttons). But it's not like the controls in those games were bad- they were just different.
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For each toon kills the mob he 'groes, yet each toon does not die. |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:16 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
I read the first Gothic was keyboard only until close to the release. A German mag convinced PB that no mouse wouldn´t be tolerated by the players anymore. A possible console conversion would explain why the Gothics work relatively well with gamepads.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:29 pm |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
The reveiw is just wrong on so many levels.
quote:
The fighting controls are almost as perplexing as the interface set up. To attack, you have to hold down the alt key (by default) and press the forward and side arrows to swing your weapon or shoot your bow.
While the interface is not standard, it is configurable and my set-up is nothing like this reviewer. Maybe next time read the manual . . .
or this one
quote:
A major drawback to the game is the fact that it takes a tremendous amount of time to progress your character through quests and leveling. After several hours of playtime, I was suddenly hit with the realization that I really hadn’t gotten anything done yet. The game moves at a crippling slow pace.
Shheeez, ever play a standard D&D game where you TOP OFF at level 12?
Now hold on to your seats because this is what they say a C+ rating means
quote:
C+ to C-
Games in this ranking tend to have a number of flaws but are still playable to some extent. These game don't aspire to too much, tend to stick to the traditions and conventions of their respective genres and are usually enjoyed more by fans of a specific type of game. These types of games tend to get stale in a short order.
Stale???? Gothic 2 is the best CRPG on the market right now and its over 2 years old. Nothing as good has come out since. Oh, well, not every site aspires to be as good as RPG.DOT |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:23 pm |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
I tried searching the site for more reviews by this guy but there was no search function. And I had to register to get into the forums. Maybe one of you folks want to venture there?
Anyway I perused the PC review section and found the following:
A+ rated games
Doom RPG
Final Fantasy XI
Guild Wars
B rated games
I of the Dragon
D+ rated games
Sacred
Genforge 2 |
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Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:42 pm |
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