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PraetorJudis
Village Leader
Joined: 05 Sep 2001
Posts: 78
Location: MotherShip 2c457z |
Thanks Raldor. I'm always glad I went back and inserted links into my rants. It's good to know other people are glad too!
_________________
*gniltrohc yawa srednaw* |
Sat May 14, 2005 9:27 am |
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Morten
Guest
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"does seem to be people in the arts (where I used to work and which I still love) that not only are people lazy, they become incensed that the world is not madly interested in whatever venture they have going next. "
That’s all about being an artist  and it's a feeling very similar to your first love. That is what drives artists to create art. The feeling that people out there would love to see, hear, read what they have to say with their works of art would artists be better if they thought that people are not interest in what they are doing? and it's "meaningless"?
When you are in love for the first time everything else is meaningless. Food? Who needs that, fancy clothes? School? The rest of the world? Who cares? It’s me and my love. In other words, Devotion.
Perhaps that is what happened to you. You run out of love for what you did back then. Perhaps even, you were never in love with it or you were never fit to belong in that thing. Everybody has certain talents. It’s not that bad provided that you love what you do now. But you can’t simply tag people as lazy or point your finger towards them. (although you still love them, damned lazy bastards)
Thousands of people leave their personal life behind and work more hours than most of the people who hang out in all the forums of the internet saying this game is this the other is that, and have the courage to put their heads in line for open and often VERY cruel (I’ve read horrible things on game, movie related boards) criticism that not many other jobs take in the “lazy” process of creating art for entertainment. Very often not for a huge amount of money either as some might say. It’s the game developers who make something that is not really a thing you need. Art is not about things you need. It’s about things you enjoy. You don't need a painting; you don't need a song, a book or a game in your life.
It's a fact that many lazy people become artists to hide the fact that they are lazy and many of them become great artists too. Kings used to have artists in their court doing nothing but painting and creating busts and statues crests, songs, poems, and music that would glorify them and their country and that is how we know of those kings and kingdoms of those ages. For that reason art has helped immensely the work of historians, it gave those leads and insight about ancient times ethics, everyday life and so on. A bunch of “lazy” people helped open our eyes, and gaze upon the future inspired by what great things they did with so little back then.
As a very lazy friend of mine says: It’s a pity that billions of hardworking, productive people, "responsible for making the world go round and everything good on this earth that those lazy bastards want to enjoy for free", can't offer a few millions of slackers a decent living. |
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Sat May 14, 2005 3:08 pm |
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PraetorJudis
Village Leader
Joined: 05 Sep 2001
Posts: 78
Location: MotherShip 2c457z |
quote:
That is what drives artists to create art. The feeling that people out there would love to see, hear, read what they have to say with their works of art
Or, perhaps they produce art because they have something inside them that needs out and it doesn't matter how people feel about it. In fact, if you listen to most great artists, sculptors, and writers, it's not about the reaction of people to their work, it's strictly about their need to express themselves.
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Art is not about things you need. It's about things you enjoy. You don't need a painting; you don't need a song, a book or a game in your life.
Actually, I'd argue that we do need those things in our lives and that without them, we're not really living.
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You run out of love for what you did back then. Perhaps even, you were never in love with it or you were never fit to belong in that thing.
From the sound of it, he stayed in love with what he was trying to do back then, which was to make money. If he did once have a love of making games, then you're absolutely right. His desire for a high income may have caused him to fall out of love with designing games.
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It's a fact that many lazy people become artists to hide the fact that they are lazy and many of them become great artists too.
I whole heartedly disagree with that statement. Lazy people may become great artists eventually, but only if their passion for their art lifts them out of their lethargy. You premise seems to be based on an odd definition of the word 'lazy'. Producing art is work. Lazy does not mean 'unwilling to get a job in industry or business", lazy means 'unwilling to exert yourself' and the creation of great art require exertion, whether it be physical, emotional, or intellectual.
_________________
*gniltrohc yawa srednaw* |
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Sat May 14, 2005 3:38 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Or, perhaps they produce art because they have something inside them that needs out and it doesn't matter how people feel about it.
Everybody has something inside them that needs out. It’s part of what makes us humans. If they didn’t feel it was important for others to read they would not have published it nor put it in a place for others to see. They would paint something and then put it in the closet. (as many great artists did) or even worse they would keep it in their head for themselves.
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In fact, if you listen to most great artists, sculptors, and writers, it's not about the reaction of people to their work; it's strictly about their need to express themselves.
In fact most of the great artists are dead
And that is sooo much a diversion, more than anything else. Have you ever been worshiped? I mean really. Although simply being worshiped by your partner is enough to get an idea, imagine being worshiped by a village, a country, a culture. how does that sound? It’s all about fame. I’ve discussed it with many colleagues. The rest is just sauce. Vanity my friend. Vanity... and a hint of the need to share but again what drives you to think that your idea is so good that you should share it and others would be interested? tsk tsk
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Actually, I'd argue that we do need those things in our lives and that without them, we're not really living.
Being an artist that is exactly the reaction I was trying to get by saying this thank you 
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From the sound of it, he stayed in love with what he was trying to do back then, which was to make money. If he did once have a love of making games, then you're absolutely right. His desire for a high income may have caused him to fall out of love with designing games.
He was in love with the idea of making money more than the idea of becoming a successful game developer and that is enough to "prove" what I said. Unfortunately for me I’m more in love with the idea of being a game developer and doing graphics for films and that is because i enjoy the idea that thousands if not millions enjoy what i made for them. and of course feel like $#i+ when they don't hehe.
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Producing art is work.
That is also a reaction I was trying to get from my little essay  Artists are usually laid back not lazy. The countless hours of work prove exactly that. That is what lazy people see and are attracted by this lifestyle. What they fail to see is the countless hours If you read more carefully you will see that I said “many of them” not all of them become great artists.
My post was a reaction to the word lazy and I used the word mainly as a reference to that specific post. As a game developer I have received the good feelings of countless fans in forums like this. It’s a huge boost to the teams morale to hear good words and constructive criticism. That helps being committed to what you do in a job where what you do is being a wizard’s apprentice and many things don’t go the way you think.
lt seams that we agree in many things don't you think? |
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Sat May 14, 2005 5:22 pm |
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PraetorJudis
Village Leader
Joined: 05 Sep 2001
Posts: 78
Location: MotherShip 2c457z |
quote:
In fact most of the great artists are dead
All the more reason to listen!
I'm not 100% sure I'd agree with the vanity argument. I think many actors, and perhaps game designers, have a large element of that in them, but I stand by my assertion that the truly great don't produce art for the recognition. Since so many of the greats weren't recognized in their lifetime, we're lucky, eh?
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It seams that we agree in many things don't you think?
Indeed! Please don't think I'm being quarrelsome. I love arguing semantics and particulars with those whose overall viewpoint corresponds to mine as much as I love arguing with those I find to be hopelessly incorrect. I'm pleased, in fact, that some of your points were bait. I've been known to employ that tactic myself.
_________________
*gniltrohc yawa srednaw* |
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Sat May 14, 2005 5:36 pm |
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Morten
Guest
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Bait for those who have a brain and use it to come out
I read this guy's post and having some experience making games and "the industry" I agree with him in many things that he says.
I don't think he says that people should play every crap thrown at them and shut up.He simply states that many, if not most, of the people whining and ranting about games quality etc. have not even bought them and it's true.Many of them even feel jealous when their friend comes up with the original beautifull box and manuals but they will never admit it .Piracy and this especially happens to single player games, (as most multiplayer ones require a unique key to play online), is a plague and it doesn't help at all PC developers and the game industry in general. I'm happy that Nintendo is safe-guarding their content as much as they do, but on the other hand this probably has a bad effect on their business. (see how xbox jumped to #2 when pirated games started flooding P2P channels and newsgroups..) and Yes I do buy the games i like.
As for the new technology that made things more complex for games i totally agree (but only for those artists and teams who had no experience in VFX for films & broadcast) . it's now closer to film FX development than ever and that is not easy for developers who were used to slapping a nice texture on their model and exporting it.
It's a matter of development choice. Going for the looks or focus on the gameplay?Usually there's no time or money for both sorry. DS or PSP? we will see which will prevail and once and for all answer that question that seams to come up very often in gaming forums. for the time being gameplay wins by far..
On the other hand more tools that help us use this technology efficiently come out and so things after this transitional period for game development will get back to normal with those who couldn't keep up being left out.New people will get in, and all that cool stuff that happen in the process of evolution.
I too agree that people shouldn't talk about the Death of PC games that is not going to happen as long as FPS games draw breath pure RPG games come out, multiplayer with more than 32 people is required, Strategy games sell , and so on. I believe we will still enjoy new PC games for at least 5 more years.(and this technologically speaking is a long time)
We just have to start forgetting about distinct game gategories as games become full experiences and not simply shooter/adventure/rpg.. but all of the above.why? because now technology allows that to happen.Be patient and i'm sure with the experience/engines/graphics cards that have come into play, we are in for a hell of a gaming ride, and that is the most important thing of all. |
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Sat May 14, 2005 6:52 pm |
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Raldor
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 107
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quote:
Originally posted by Morten
I don't think he says that people should play every crap thrown at them and shut up.He simply states that many, if not most, of the people whining and ranting about games quality etc. have not even bought them and it's true.
How does he, you, or anyone else know or even form an educated guess that this is true? Even if it is true, this doesn't do anything at all to address the complaints from people who did pay for the game, only further insult them. To me it just sounds like someone trying to justify things to themself... Who cares if those jerks don't like my game, they probably didn't even pay for it! |
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Sun May 15, 2005 4:32 am |
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