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GokYabguHan
Head Merchant
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 62
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| I have found Ultima IX a bit childish |
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Well, i found Ultima IX a week ago and installed it with the patches 1.18 and 1.19. The world looks intriguing. But, i have found the dialoges in the game more childish, the game have given me the feeling that it had developed for 10 years old children. I admit that much RPGs use same cliches, but at least they relate the tale in a more complex and epic dialoges. That reminded me the books i have red when i was 7-10.
Also, second and biggest disappointment was the development system. For ex, there was a saying "strong" in strength. Strong for what? It can be relative. Strong for a goblin maybe, but for a troll, orc or such. Also, there was no stats for weapons. There was no statistics, no points or such. I even could not understand killing a monster could give me experience or not. |
Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:29 pm |
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Thepal
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Australia |
Ultima has never had stats for weapons and skills. It only uses Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence. As for it saying you are strong, you are human. Therefore you are strong for a human.  Seems pretty straight-forward to me
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-==Thepal==-
Ultima 9 - Infinity Eternal |
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Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:09 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
The Ultima series has never struck me as childish. But, to each their own.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:25 pm |
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Ortchel
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 7
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I understand how you could think that. Ultima's game mechanics are certainly simpler than most other roleplaying games, the series must be unbearable for stat-hounds.
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Let me be who I am, and let me kick out the jams. |
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:13 am |
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Withstand the Fury
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 50
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
Indeed, and in Ultima the acquisition of massive stats was never a requirement or necessary goal of players, because it was meant to be about the plot, the story. Ultima 6 is perhaps a perfect example because you can win the game without ever advancing beyond the starting level of the character.
This isn't because it's childish - far from it! It is because the game has a non-violent resolution, no end boss that you have to smash into the ground. And it is because the game is very conducive to a cunning, reasoned style of play that requires a little more mental function than "I am level 78 with a +9 Sword of Striking! Quiver before me, all enemies!".
Thepal raised a valid point - in Ultima, you are a human being, and that's it. In real-life, which Ultima does a better job of reflecting in many respects than something like AD&D, when you gain in strength, it is a general thing, not focused. If you can bench 250 lbs, then you can bench 250 lbs period. You can bench 250 lbs of feathers, bricks, orcs, or goblins. There's no +/- advantages/disadvantages in real life...you can't have it so that you can bench 300 lbs of orc but only 100 lbs of spider.
 WtFD
_________________
-==(UDIC)==-
Project Lead: Worlds of Ultima: Lost Sosaria
Editor-in-Chief: Ultima: Aiera
Administrator: The Orphanage |
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:25 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Withstand the Fury
Ultima 6 is perhaps a perfect example because you can win the game without ever advancing beyond the starting level of the character.
It's a pain in the rear end however.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:05 am |
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Withstand the Fury
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 50
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
It's a pain in the rear end however.
Oh, heck yeah. Very difficult and tedious work. But it's fun to do, just to prove to yourself that you can!
WtFD
_________________
-==(UDIC)==-
Project Lead: Worlds of Ultima: Lost Sosaria
Editor-in-Chief: Ultima: Aiera
Administrator: The Orphanage |
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:09 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Only if you are a masochist. 
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:26 pm |
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Withstand the Fury
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 50
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
Only if you are a masochist.
Well, perhaps. But then...where I live, it's -18 C outside (with windchill taking it to -25 C at least). And I still ride my bicycle to school, a 30-minute trip.
Does that count?
WtFD
_________________
-==(UDIC)==-
Project Lead: Worlds of Ultima: Lost Sosaria
Editor-in-Chief: Ultima: Aiera
Administrator: The Orphanage |
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Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:40 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Yeah, barely.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:00 pm |
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Withstand the Fury
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 50
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada |
See, the trick would be to pass Ultima 7 without killing anyone.
Well, no...that would be impossible, given the final battle. But trying to minimize the killing...that would be a task. Killing only Hook, Elizabeth, and Abraham (and that dragon if you're playing FOV also) would be a truly monumental task.
It's actually not bad in Ultima 6. All you need to do is go around collecting invisibility rings. Keep the party small, and you'll easily preserve the supply of rings. The only truly hard part is getting the Hydra in the swamp out of the way so you can dig into the pirate dungeon. The rest is tough, but easier by comparison.
WtFD
_________________
-==(UDIC)==-
Project Lead: Worlds of Ultima: Lost Sosaria
Editor-in-Chief: Ultima: Aiera
Administrator: The Orphanage |
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Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:14 am |
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Scoundrel
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Istanbul, Turkey |
I have to say that I didnt find U9 childish, but I think the STR DEX and INT thing wasnt enough for me to call the game an rpg. I expected an experience system, skill and stat points etc. Killing monsters in U9 was not much of a fun. Not many tactics to speak of, just hack and slash. Ok maybe throw off a fireball or two but to what end? When there were better games in the time when U9 was first released, the developers gave us a U9 with bad gameplay. Its something like releasing a lower tech game, while there are high tech games in the market. Also the story wasnt following the prequels.
Back to the topic... U9 is not childish, but games of Harry Potter may be childish for me. You cant mutilate giant rats and look down at the puddle of blood in a game and call it childish. If a game dispatches a snake by turning it into a snake-shaped baloon and fly away, then that game may be considered childish. It all depends on your definition of the word "childish".
Btw my favourite Ultima is: U7 (both of them w/ their expansions).
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Right makes might! |
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Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:40 pm |
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Dunmer King
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 277
Location: In a land far, far away |
I agree, 9 is not childish, just a little simple. I happened to like the conversations in the game, but I just like being praised soo.....
Other rpgs tend to be more complex but Ultima is not childish. Although, I like 7 the best.
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Do you know how LAZY you Morrowind people are! Instead of getting up and fighting Dagoth Ur, you send someone to do it for you! Only I'm excused, I AM the king. |
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Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:40 am |
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Fez
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 08 Dec 2001
Posts: 240
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Ultima 9 was poorly made in every sense of the word and was a bugfest when it came out. It doesn't even match up with the old games. Pathetic. The fans were in uproar when it happened. As bad as the Fallout fans when the crappy FOBOS came out.
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“Everyone’s a girl when they’re face down.” |
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Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:09 am |
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Farrier
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 10
Location: London, UK. |
U8 was the worst of the bunch, U9 was breathtaking, and allowed you to explore the world in a way never before imaginable. For that alone, it was worth the money. Apart from the music in the castle brittania, Fatman's music was excellent and atmospheric everywhere. So, in eye ane ear candy, it was great. That's what you expect from a game that had five years' eye and ear candy time, and only 18 months' development time.
So it most certainly wasn't "poorly made in every sense of the word". The engine was groundbreaking, the graphics, maps and music were wonderful,
...and yet it was, indeed, pretty awful. Not as bad, nor as catastrophically bugridden as U8. But, bad.
Lousy voice acting. That's been true in the Ultimas (apart from the Guardian, who is perfectly cast as an archetype) since they brought in voice acting, though. The intro to Underworld 1 made me cry out in anguish, it was so incredibly, mindnumbingly bad. And yet, the Underworlds are without doubt the best games ever made. Well, IMHO anyhow :)
Slowness. I have just finished U9 for the first time a couple of days ago, since I now have a machine that can run it, at a decent speed. (I've had a nice enough machine for a while, but only recently have I found the 1.19 patch which allowed it to display anything other than random triangles). So, yeah, the game was groundbreaking, but it broke ground way ahead of the machines of the day.
Inconsistencies. People claim there are inconsistencies. A female Gargoyle! And yet, in Gargoyle like me, (a /work of fiction/ and joke on "Black like me", a famous American work of fiction) it says they appear to have no gender! zOMG! I must die now! ... or else, maybe they just never speak of the queens to outsiders. Basically, there were no devastating plot holes that I or Hacki could find, only a bunch of nitpicks. In skimming through Hacki's sections on " the only annoyingly inconsistent thing that can't be satisfactorily explained is the avatar's consistent asking of who or what people are: " “I’m sorry, but what... I mean, who are the Gargoyles?" being perhaps the most offensive. They could have been phrased better "could you remind me..." but the question is important for new players' enjoyment of the game, so was needed, in one form or another.
Bugs. Oh, yes, gamekilling bugs. The engine was groundbreaking, but also broken. And that, more than anything else, was what killed it, for me, for years. I would have played it, even at the stonkingly slow speed, but the bugs killed me.
However, in my experience at least, the bugs were LESS intrusive, even in the unpatched game back when I had a machine that could play it unpatched at slideshow-speed, than Ultima 8, which was just purely reprehensible. I have not finished U8. And it has nothing to pull me in and make me WANT to, so I never intend to, though I have tried a few times to pluck up the enthusiasm. Sometimes I even made it out of the mindbogglingly boring dungeons a few times. Sometimes I gave up on reloading he last save, or the save from 20 before....
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Yet another Avatar. |
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Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:59 am |
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