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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
| opinions on multi-classing? |
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I haven't played very long, but it seems to me that multiclassing a character just wouldn't work very well. There's only a couple combos that don't clash, and those don't seem overly useful anyway. Am I missing the boat here?
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Sat Feb 01, 2003 2:41 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Not really. Multiclassing is mostly for character flavor... and qualifying for prestige classes.
A dwarven cleric might pick up two levels of fighter through their career, for example. An elf might dabble in wizardry (take a level or 3). Overally, only stacking 'like' classes (ranger/barbarian is a GREAT stack) works power wise.
It depends on goals, though. A fighter 8/wizard 12 is hardly a WEAK character... but they're no wizard 20 (duh... they're wizard 12.  ). They're good in a fight and have some great spells to open fire with (sorcerer works better for that). A fighter 4 rogue 16 is a terrible, terrible thing to behold on the sneak attack battlefield.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Feb 01, 2003 6:13 pm |
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Brenner
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 18 May 2002
Posts: 102
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My personal favorite multi-class is probably weak, but a fun character type to play. He is a lawful neutral, half-orc, Druid/Monk.
base stats at the start of the game were:
str 16
dex 14
con 14
wis 15
int 8
chr 8
I may try a fighter / ranger next. Take enough fighter levels to get weapon specialization and improved critical with the longbow, and maybe a sword or an axe (for offhand use), and then max out the rest as a ranger to get an animal companion, ambidexterity, and improved two weapon fighting.
"Me go hunt monsters now." |
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Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:58 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I imagine many people do it to pick up some of the automatic skills and feats of the new class. For example, in our current campaign, if my cleric were to add a couple of levels of barbarian he'd get 12 HP instead of 8, some improved attack bonuses, martial weapons feat and uncanny dodge.
Is that worth the loss of the extra Cleric spells etc that I'd otherwise have? Dunno (that's why Xen's the D&D guru - I'm not that good at this) - but if I wanted a combat-oriented cleric it might be something to consider.
I'll stick to pure classes, I think  . |
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Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:48 pm |
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Kayla
High Emperor
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 2114
Location: Australia |
I don't like multiclass characters. I find it's better to just play one character and have all the benefits for that character, than to try and make a mutant which isn't going to be as useful.
Especially with the BG/IWD 6 party system, you can have up to six people and really balance the party well. In NWN it is harder as it's only you and the henchman, but I still stayed one class.
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Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:57 pm |
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ffbj
High Emperor
Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 489
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A number of good points. I think you are right Kayla, if you are going to be in a party, but just a few characters, or solo, you really need to multiclass. |
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Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:54 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
I agree. With party based games, you can specialise more, though the occasional MC can work well if only to give someone a backup skill, say a little healing. In NWN, MC is more viable. My preferred char was one level of Barb for the early HP and some decent melee skills followed by 19 levels of sorceror. I play primarily as a mage, but sometimes being able to swing a sword can be a life saver.
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Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:24 am |
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FlipMoeJack
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 23 Jun 2002
Posts: 176
Location: New York |
I'm currently a level 5 Sorceror and a level 2 Paladin.
Do you think this Paladin Sorceror thing will work?
I'm also a Half-Elf. I wanted to make a combat caster type character. I was thinking of going to level 5 paladin and finishing with level 15 Sorceror until I become a Pale Master in Hordes of Underdark.
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(-[ApoK Forever]-) |
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:14 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
I'm a level 9 dwarven paladin. I was thinking about adding a few levels of cleric to give me some more divine spells. Or maybe druid would be a better choice. . .
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:36 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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quote:
Originally posted by FlipMoeJack
I'm currently a level 5 Sorceror and a level 2 Paladin.
Do you think this Paladin Sorceror thing will work?
I'm also a Half-Elf. I wanted to make a combat caster type character. I was thinking of going to level 5 paladin and finishing with level 15 Sorceror until I become a Pale Master in Hordes of Underdark.
...
...
Pale Master is an undead using prestige class. I don't think paladins can be one. I don't have Defenders of the Faith on hand to check, though.
Paladin 5 sorcerer 15 is fine... technically speaking using 3.0 rules Paladin 4/Sorcerer 16 is better.
Similarly ... with the Dwarven Paladin adding 10 levels of cleric (better yet 11 levels) is an excellent decision. By level 9 you have everything you need from the paladin class ... except level 3 and 4 spells. As a level 11 cleric you'll have access to level 6 spells.
Now, things go a little screwy when Hoardes of the Underdark comes out if they use the epic level progression rules. There will be some irritated people, as you don't get BONUS epic feats until any class passes level 20 or any prestige class passes level 10. You still get an epic feat every three levels, naturally, so all is not lost at all.... but for fighters? Those bonus epic feats are godsends.
But obviously I won't be able to advise in context of NWN until I have Hoardes and see how they handled the greatest challenge of 3rd Edition... Epic levels.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:24 pm |
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StarkeRealm
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 38
Location: Louisville, KY |
| Pen and Paper multi-classing |
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First, I'll admit that I don't have and have never played NWN, however from the perspective of a P&P player.
I've allways thought that multiclassing was intended to provide a depth to a character more then just another option for munchkining. After all isn't a "fallen" paladin who now works as a mercenary a more interesting character then just another guy in heavy armor swinging a two-hander around.
In the current D20 game I've been running I've been encouraging the players to start with multiclassed characters because it does add depth to them.
From a stratigic standpoint it usually doesn't make any sense to multi-class, but from the perspective of roll-playing it opens up a wealth of options in who your character really is.
Just my opinion
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The problem with programers is that we can type out 32 character long strings without errors, but we can't spell worth a damn. |
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:56 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Oh no... it's definitely for the munch factor as well.
Barbarian 3/Fighter 4/Rogue 3 will kick the living hell out of Barbarian 10, Fighter 10, or Rogue 10 any day of the week.
He won't have as many hit points as the barbarian or be able to rage as often... but he will be able to rage as well and will have comparible hit points and far more feats (as well as a lot of skills and the ability to sneak attack and use evasion).
He won't have as many feats as the fighter but his hit points will be practically identical and the ability to rage and the potential to dodge lightning bolts more than makes up for a few feats lost.
He won't be as skilled or do as much sneak attack damage as the rogue but he'll have FAR more hit points (nearly double when raged, on average) and be a far better combatant than the rogue could ever hope to be, toe to toe.
You can add color to anything with description. To prove a point I 'justified' the existance of a half-orc Barbarian/Ranger/Frenzied Berserker/Monk/Red Avenger the other day with a two paragraph life story.
Writing a life story for a single classed character can be nearly as easy (and as colorful, though I admit the trainwreck half-orc certainly was easier to make 'colorful'). You get out what you put in... and since all characters can be incredibly interesting (even a level 12 commoner... what a life he must have led to make it to level 12 as a commoner!) that leaves the number crunching goodness that multiclass bestows as a prime canditate as to 'why' for a lot of players.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:44 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
You know, Xen, I'm no D&D guru so perhaps the comparison doesn't mean a great deal, but you are moving in a completely different plane from me on this stuff. I'm amazed at the passion and insight you bring to the table.
Some day, I'm going to bribe you into joining my sessions for a night or three. It would be quite the treat for myself and my players.
Managing to marry the hardcore number-crunching to the creative passion in a relationship of equals is quite an accomplishment. Congrats!
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=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:19 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Pale Master is an undead using prestige class. I don't think paladins can be one. I don't have Defenders of the Faith on hand to check, though.
They have to be any non-good alignment. So, no paladins.
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Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:19 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I keep meaning to show up for a DTE session but several factors work against it: 1) My general distress over the poor netcode that makes NWN ridiculously laggy regardless of connection and computer capacity 2) I tend to run my Werewolf: The Apocalypse game that night 3) Even if I don't I'm usually out anyways and of course 4) By the time I realize that there's a session being run this Wed ... it's usually Friday.
It's the number crunching aspect that gets me discredited as a powergamer (which I am... I just don't see it as a bad thing neccessarily) on the official D&D boards.
My philosophy is this: "Sure, I can roleplay a toaster. But if I can also roleplay a state of the art computerized toaster with power settings that work, an emergency smoke filter, and a current inhibitor that stops babies with metal objects from electrocuting themselves why settle for the toaster?"
It's a matter of intent. I choose things based on the premise of creating a mechanically sound roleplayable and credible (as in competent) character. I don't chose things based on exploiting loopholes in rules resulting in being able to kill a great wyrm dragon in one charge attack.
Heh. As an aside... the funnest thing I ever did in a Star Trek RPG was play a Tribble for a session at a convention. You wouldn't believe the look on people at the tournaments faces as I kept coming up with ways to get into the food stores no matter what they did. I also assassinated a klingon character in a viscious self-defense plot involving a bat'leth, a concealed power conduit, and creative placement of offspring. Nobody could believe I managed to optimize a Tribble's strengths and weaknesses.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:17 pm |
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