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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| VtM: Bloodlines - Review @ GameSpot |
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GameSpot's adjudication on Vampire: Bloodlines is in and it's a harsher judgement than the forerunners. With a score of 7.7/10, the <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vtmb/review.html" target="_blank">review</a> particularly criticises combat. Here's a taste:<blockquote><em>Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines comes during a surprisingly dry year for PC role-playing games, which only amplifies the attention on the game. There's also a lot of focus on Bloodlines due to the fact that it's based on White Wolf's popular pen-and-paper role-playing game, and partly since it uses Valve's Source engine, the same engine behind Half-Life 2. And, for the most part, Bloodlines is an atmospheric role-playing game with a rich setting--though it's one beset with a clumsy combat system and some noticeable bugs. That's unfortunate, since the game clearly could have been better had its rough edges been ironed out.</em></blockquote>If you put stock in reader scores, you may be interested to note that GameSpot's visitors have meted out a 9.4 at this point. |
Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:39 am |
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modret
Village Dweller
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
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I'd have to agree with the reviewer when he said the combat controlls were a bit clumsy ... well not as much when ur using rifles and such but when ur using melee or ur fists, it's really clumsy, a target system would of been perfect here ... oh and some of the attacks you do can be soo useless, they take forever to do and end up doing so few damage.
But the atmosphere is pretty fucking sweet, i got sooo spooked out when i was in the haunted mansion and in the malkavian's primigen mansion ... good thing there's not a whole lot of fighting... for my sexy Toreador anyways  |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:45 am |
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Melvil
Village Leader
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 80
Location: Austin, Tx |
The gamespot review is fair, and with a patch to get rid of the (few that I've seen so far) bugs the score could be considered in the 8.5 range. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:29 am |
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Guest
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I'm immensely disappointed to hear that the combat is so lousy (both AI and weapon control). I've heard that melee weapons have a huge advantage over guns, which is even more astonishing when I read that melee combat isn't very good. I *REALLY* hope that they fix things up in a patch in the near future, because I'm dying to play a good RPG... it's been years (literally). |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:03 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I've really done little more than fire it up to take a look but the combat certainly seems better than say, Morrowind and I'd be surprised if it didn't get better with some skill points. That may be faint praise but although Morrowind's combat was justly criticised, it was rarely the focus of major tirades in reviews. I think the issue is being overstated. On bugs, most of the comments I've seen relate to clipping and other graphical issues and I can't see that sort of thing as a huge deal.
If the gameplay changes as much from clan to clan as claimed, to hell with the combat -- I'm going to love it.
_________________
Editor @ RPGDot |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:26 am |
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Guest
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The review is done by the same guy who reviewed HL2…even if he pressed himself to be fair, I think it would be difficult to ignore some graphical glitches and flaws as FPS. HL2 is FPS, so, the awkward story he mentioned didn’t lower the score too much.
On the other hand, with VtM, the score is average as a FPS/RPG hybrid with HL2 in the reviewer’s mind. We are RP gamers and I’m planning to play as a stealthy/talker (I bought it but don't have it yet), so, never mind the review.
7.7 points at Gamespot is kind of hard on Troika, though. In fact, how many people do read between lines of the review rather than just looking at the score… |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:56 am |
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DarthOtzzelot
Village Dweller
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 11
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I have the strange feeling that reviewers expect HL2 style combat just because BL uses the same engine. This comparison is not very fair though.
It's like comparing Bloodlines' story, dialog, freedom of choice and character development to that of HL2 and thus rating HL2 a 42%.
BL is an RPG after all and as one reviewer said (I think it was Gamespy) "As an RPG Bloodlines is almost flawless".
That said I must agree that I hope Troika does something to balance out Melee vs. Ranged in a coming patch. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:29 am |
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dagoo77
Guest
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I've only played for awhile with melee character but I don't really feel the combat is overly clunky. While it is somewhat difficult and often harder to hit your target, especially in 3rd person, I don't take this as a failing.
Although I'm not a twitch action game player by any means, I actually prefer games where melee combat is harder, takes awhile to master, and is more realistic. In many ways games where you can lock on an enemy and simply proceed to click buttons is totally unrealistic and frankly boring. Melee combat was frequently one of the major criticisms of Gothic 2 by domestic reviewers, and I personally feel that its combat system was one of my favorite in any game I've played. You really felt like you were wielding a heavy steel weapon, not dancing around and doing acrobatics in heavy armor.
I'll have to play longer to see if there is any merit to these complaints, but I don't anticipate being overly upset in the same fashion. Given the current game mechanics, I also don't really see a problem with the melee/ranged dmg disparity. Melee is harder to hit and places you in more danger so should do more damage. In addition most of the ranged weapon builds I've considered (ie those clans which have strengths in attributes/skills that affect ranged) also tend to have some very substantial enemy focused magic/disciplines to help out, and ranged is just one component of overall damage output.
Finally, I didn't buy this game as a twitch action game, I bought it as an RPG. And frankly it looks to be a great RPG, and makes me think of what Deus Ex 2 could/should have been. Really hate to see bad reviews of a game that tries to resurrect a valid mix of rpg and FPS/3rd person action that showed so much promise in System Shock 2 and the first Deus Ex. If this game fails because its not a perfect action game, we're likely to see even less of this type of rpg in the future. And in the future I would like to be able to play something other than MMORPGs for an rpg experience. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:21 pm |
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dagoo77
Guest
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I've only played for awhile with melee character but I don't really feel the combat is overly clunky. While it is somewhat difficult and often harder to hit your target, especially in 3rd person, I don't take this as a failing.
Although I'm not a twitch action game player by any means, I actually prefer games where melee combat is harder, takes awhile to master, and is more realistic. In many ways games where you can lock on an enemy and simply proceed to click buttons is totally unrealistic and frankly boring. Melee combat was frequently one of the major criticisms of Gothic 2 by domestic reviewers, and I personally feel that its combat system was one of my favorite in any game I've played. You really felt like you were wielding a heavy steel weapon, not dancing around and doing acrobatics in heavy armor.
I'll have to play longer to see if there is any merit to these complaints, but I don't anticipate being overly upset in the same fashion. Given the current game mechanics, I also don't really see a problem with the melee/ranged dmg disparity. Melee is harder to hit and places you in more danger so should do more damage. In addition most of the ranged weapon builds I've considered (ie those clans which have strengths in attributes/skills that affect ranged) also tend to have some very substantial enemy focused magic/disciplines to help out, and ranged is just one component of overall damage output.
Finally, I didn't buy this game as a twitch action game, I bought it as an RPG. And frankly it looks to be a great RPG, and makes me think of what Deus Ex 2 could/should have been. Really hate to see bad reviews of a game that tries to resurrect a valid mix of rpg and FPS/3rd person action that showed so much promise in System Shock 2 and the first Deus Ex. If this game fails because its not a perfect action game, we're likely to see even less of this type of rpg in the future. And in the future I would like to be able to play something other than MMORPGs for an rpg experience. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:22 pm |
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dagoo77
Guest
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I've only played for awhile with melee character but I don't really feel the combat is overly clunky. While it is somewhat difficult and often harder to hit your target, especially in 3rd person, I don't take this as a failing.
Although I'm not a twitch action game player by any means, I actually prefer games where melee combat is harder, takes awhile to master, and is more realistic. In many ways games where you can lock on an enemy and simply proceed to click buttons is totally unrealistic and frankly boring. Melee combat was frequently one of the major criticisms of Gothic 2 by domestic reviewers, and I personally feel that its combat system was one of my favorite in any game I've played. You really felt like you were wielding a heavy steel weapon, not dancing around and doing acrobatics in heavy armor.
I'll have to play longer to see if there is any merit to these complaints, but I don't anticipate being overly upset in the same fashion. Given the current game mechanics, I also don't really see a problem with the melee/ranged dmg disparity. Melee is harder to hit and places you in more danger so should do more damage. In addition most of the ranged weapon builds I've considered (ie those clans which have strengths in attributes/skills that affect ranged) also tend to have some very substantial enemy focused magic/disciplines to help out, and ranged is just one component of overall damage output.
Finally, I didn't buy this game as a twitch action game, I bought it as an RPG. And frankly it looks to be a great RPG, and makes me think of what Deus Ex 2 could/should have been. Really hate to see bad reviews of a game that tries to resurrect a valid mix of rpg and FPS/3rd person action that showed so much promise in System Shock 2 and the first Deus Ex. If this game fails because its not a perfect action game, we're likely to see even less of this type of rpg in the future. And in the future I would like to be able to play something other than MMORPGs for an rpg experience. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:22 pm |
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dagoo77
Guest
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Apologize for the double post, my computer hung, and I cant delete because wasn't officially logged in. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:26 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by DarthOtzzelot
That said I must agree that I hope Troika does something to balance out Melee vs. Ranged in a coming patch.
Remember another game that suffered from the same problem? Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption! |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:36 pm |
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Guest
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currenly has TWO gamestopping bugs right now though. Given that I think the score is valid. |
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Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:44 pm |
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Guest
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"Although I'm not a twitch action game player by any means, I actually prefer games where melee combat is harder, takes awhile to master, and is more realistic. In many ways games where you can lock on an enemy and simply proceed to click buttons is totally unrealistic and frankly boring. Melee combat was frequently one of the major criticisms of Gothic 2 by domestic reviewers, and I personally feel that its combat system was one of my favorite in any game I've played. You really felt like you were wielding a heavy steel weapon, not dancing around and doing acrobatics in heavy armor. "
I think its funny how you don't think you're a twitch-action gamer. |
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Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:19 am |
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guest272727
Guest
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Why?
Why I had waited this game for two years eagerly, to be broken in the end?
the combat system is absolutely awful. It is one ot the worst I've ever seen!
I don't know what is it, an idiocy or marketing but the facts are facts.
Is this so dificult for the god sake to make some 3th person style when there are HUNDREDS of games with such gameplay to be seen from? If they cannot invent something new why hadn't they simply made things as they are in the other games?
The guns don't behave as in FPS, the melee doesn't have even a single bit of thought in them.
Do I have to teach the game programmers of the single page of source code how to "catch" a target without to lock onto it and to update dinamicly the "front" vector orientation? and how to combine it with a chosen way to calculate the weapon impact. 
I expected something like that, however. There simply aren't good 3th person games for PC anymore. The mock is that the developers try to force upon us the console style of controling the characters and nevertheless cut out the advanteges of that style of gaming.
What is next?
another nerve breaker for 60$, probably.... |
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Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:11 am |
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