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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
I only doi that without the maker of the thing i copy does not now i did it.
Copy it refears to study books were you are asked to buy the entire book if you only need 1 or 2 chapters.
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 4:33 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, they say imitation is the highest form of compliment... take it as a compliment for a cool formatted sig or something?
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:03 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
quote:
Originally posted by Gig
Like Morrowind never got dull?!? Come on--how can you even take Fionn seriously? Fionn's entire post theme through this whole thread is how right MW did everything compared to NWN. They are completely different games so they don't offer themselves well to comparison
Hi Gig, i just want to make clear some issues stated above/in your post, but first relax & no need to get yourself all tense up - i won't go berserk/shout back or such  .
O.k, i agreed with Fionn's opinion especially on SP aspect (because i only played SP), so other issues excluded. I agreed that the SP was rather "normal in almost every aspect. Nothing shoots out at you to say..OMG this game is the best," so basically "what is the freaking deal?" (see Fionn's first post), or "it just got dull after a while." That mean i also essentially agreed with what IDPuterGuy's said "The game is ok as a single player game...but I must say I'm dissappointed." Well, that's what i felt and my honest opinion after playing NWN. I never mean bashing NWN unreasoningly or just to irritate someone at NWN section who love playing NWN. It's just an opinion, nothing else, and everyone have different opinion on various issues all the time - so there's no need to feel angry when someone have different opinion. And if i have certain opinion, i might want to express it without fearing someone would cast Greater Fireball at me that does 100 pts of damages (just joking...  ) .
On what you said "Lets be serious for a minute though--Fionn's rantings are just standard MW fan fare. It's that same need that seems to dominate some members of the MW community that they must deride all other games in order to validate MW..." I can't comment about Fionn, but myself i don't think i'm MW fanboy. I accepted there's weakness/negative aspects of Morrowind, for e.g = boring guilds/factions quests etc etc. But i also very appreciate something else that only Morrowind can offer, & that's why i prefer MW (according to my own TASTE/LIKING).
As for the comparison thing, off course i aware the differents between MW & NWN etc etc. My comparison refer to my own specific context, for example if you ask me which CRPG games that i likes better (or my favorites), i will say its include Baldur's Gates series, Planescape Torment & such BUT NOT NWN (see my first post "After finishing SP in NWN, i don't think it as good as Baldur's Gates series, Planescape Torment, Gothic or Morrowind....").
That's all, hope there's no bad blood (& Peace on earth ).
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 10:50 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
No bad blood and I'm not tense either actually, I'm discussing.  It's my own weakness at expressing myself in print that makes it seem like I was tense. When I read through my own post above it seems like calm expression of how I interpret Fionn's motives with this thread. I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like an attack--if I could express myself like EverythingXen then I'm sure it wouldn't have come across the same way.
I like Morrowind too, that's one of the reasons that the constant "this game stinks compared to MW" act is getting old. Morrowind has weaknesses, so what, every game does. I'm just getting sick of insecure basement dwellers using MW as an excuse to attack every game that comes along. Might and Magic stinks compared to MW, Gothic stinks compared MW, Wizardry, Ultima, Arcanum, the list goes on and on. Why does anyone even care? Play the game you like! I hate Wiz 8, I have never gone around saying it stinks because obviously it doesn't, it's one of the most popular games around. Wiz 8 simply doesn't appeal to me, it has nothing to do with how it affects anyone else.
I don't have any problems with Fionn's, or anyone else's, opinion about NWN... it isn't going to appeal to everyone... it can't and it shouldn't. My own experience with NWN is rocky at best, although it has improved dramatically recently. I don't have a problem with you feeling that NWN does nothing to set itself apart, maybe you're even right, I don't have much xp with this type of game. I don't recall defending NWN in any way in my post other than saying that it's hard to compare to MW because they aren't the same.
In any event... I was just trying to point out what I feel were Fionn's true motives with this thread... no one else had seemed to notice. I never meant any part of my post as a personal attack on you Goldfish (may I call you Goldfish?  ). I guess I shouldn't have quoted you specifically, your post just offered a convenient way to open my argument. 
Anyway... I am sorry about the tone of the post. When I read it myself I don't get that out of it, but then, I know how I meant it to sound.
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:11 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I'm in Ch.3 and I'm having a ball. The SP experience isn't revolutionary but it's inline with my expectations for a D&D isometric RPG from Bioware -not perfect but heaps of fun. I think BG2 was better but I'll still remember NWN fondly. Just because I think PS:T is the best RPG I've played doesn't mean everything that doesn't top PS:T is crap.
I don't get the whole graphics debate! The graphics are excellent! I fired up Dungeonsiege just to make sure and I think NWN is superior - even if you liked DS better I can't understand someone thinking NWN "blew". |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:51 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
I'm surely no fan of the Ad&d system in the CRPG games, eventhough I must confess that the new 3rd generation rules are much better than the older ones for PC's anyway. You got a lot more ways to influence your character(s) development.
NWN uses these new rules very good IMHO, and have even made a few notable additions them self, which also are quite good. Alone by the new rules it's superior to BG2 or Planescape for that matter, but also the new 3D graphics with zooming/rotation possibilities are far more interesting than in the older birdview 2nd Ad&d games.
Well the story isn't revolutionary in NWN. (No stories really are any more), but it's still interesting and nicely evolving IMHO. BG2 got almost no evolving story at all, you just chase this weird sorcerer from one realm to another. However the side-characters in BG2 did have their own life and their small story which we haven't seen in the same nice way in any other newer games.
Planescape got a lot of story, but mostly to weird and uninteresting, the creators should have written a book instead! The story was way of from down to earth, if we can say that about fantasy games!?
NWN has a solid gameplay, with many nice solutions for management and game control you don't notice unless they wouldn't be there.
The atmosphere of the different areas a verty well done. The coldwood with it's brown leave-covered floor and the many sunrays who peaks into the wood through the many trees. Nice rivers, waterfalls, bridges and elevations in the landscape.
The wood areas in BG2 was just one big green spot with big troubles finding the path from your god-view point.
NWN only got one main character and a henchman, and that's the only aspect I would compare it to Morrowind or even Diablo 2. NWN got the possibilty to pause the game, and your character make his own pace in how fast he hits the enemy, which distances it a little from Diablo 2's way of fighting, but not much. I now many don't like the comparison with Diablo 2, but it's very obvious how many game mechanics are alike in these two games apart from story-depth, character development, NPC interraction possibilities and quest amounts.
Morrowind is a 1st person game, with a lot of fredom of exploring, and a huge gameworld that no other newer games can reach, The graphics are top-notch for a CRPG, but eventhough a bit difficult in comparing with a bird-view game, NWN is not far behind, if they are behind at all???
NWN may not be overall a big change from what we have seen in other games, but I think it has put together mostly the best things from other games and even added some minor things at their own. And it's also the first game to offer both custom modules and multiplayer at the same time in newer time!
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:51 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
My two cents:
Both games aren't perfect for me. I'm usually not into ISO 3rd person view games except when the story is good (I thought the one of Planescape Torment was... my opinion of course) or the pacing is good (as it was with Diablo2 if that counts), and bought NWN primarily for online play. I tried SP, and it's been a bit dull so far. What I dislike most about NWN: the voice acting is terrible, at least in the German version.
MW is a nice game IMO, but it also has its faults... the weakest point being AI. The guys supposed to accompany you/follow you possess about the brains of a Counterstrike hostage, I actually had to walk backwards to keep them in check.
I came to an agreement - I play MW for SP and NWN for MP.
So what's the deal with NWN?
It's a multiplayer deal for me. That's it.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:13 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The reason I hestitate to compare it to Diablo in the slightest can be summed up by the ability to defend a native's rights in a racist trial and succeed for fail based on the information you've gathered (and your persuasion score).
I see the single player as deep enough. And as it advances, it only gets deeper. The pacing at first is rather slow, which I suspect turns a few people off... but about midway through chapter two the story finally all started to click, and I couldn't wait to see 'what happens next'.
It's a solid game, overall, despite some of the nasty multiplayer bugs I've run into.
Is it worth the hype? No game is... that's why the word hype is short for 'hyperbole'.
Hyperbole
\Hy*per"bo*le\, n. [L., fr. Gr?, prop., an overshooting, excess, fr. Gr. ? to throw over or beyond; "ype`r over + ? to throw. See Hyper-, Parable, and cf. Hyperbola.] (Rhet.) A figure of speech in which the expression is an evident exaggeration of the meaning intended to be conveyed, or by which things are represented as much greater or less, better or worse, than they really are; a statement exaggerated fancifully, through excitement, or for effect.
Our common forms of compliment are almost all of them extravagant hyperboles. --Blair.
Somebody has said of the boldest figure in rhetoric, the hyperbole, that it lies without deceiving. --Macaulay.
No game can be worth the 'hype' anymore than a backpack we are carrying 'weighs a ton!' (unless you're a superhero and can lift a ton)
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:35 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
It's a solid game, overall, despite some of the nasty multiplayer bugs I've run into.
...I vividly remember what stepping on Badger's bear did to my character... the cobweb dress, on the other hand, wasn't a nasty bug but funny as hell .
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:50 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaz
I'm usually not into ISO 3rd person view games except when the story is good.
I'm not crazy about the ISO view either... it's the least immersive view to me. It's just hard to feel like you're really there in that view. I don't have a very developed "creep" factor in ISO games which affects immersion for me. If I'm scared, I'm there, that's the whole banana.
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''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:50 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaz
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
It's a solid game, overall, despite some of the nasty multiplayer bugs I've run into.
...I vividly remember what stepping on Badger's bear did to my character... the cobweb dress, on the other hand, wasn't a nasty bug but funny as hell .
You were most assuradely stuck up a wall at one point... but I never saw the 'dress' on you. I assumed it was a graphical error on your part.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:25 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
Hmm, I had the impression (at the time) that somebody else had also seen the cobweb thingy  , but I may be completely wrong there. Anyhoo, it looked really weird...
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:45 pm |
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Fionn
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 16
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A couple of people are saying that I'm a Morrowind fan-boy or something. Lets get this settled. I'm not. I don't follow games for years wanting to know every single detail. But when I play the game I dont tend to not voice my opinion. If I said Morrowind a lot, Its because it has a huge advantage in a lot of areas. I can go on to say Morrowind has better graphics, Dungeon Siege has a better Single Player Game, Warcraft has a better storyline, and Diablo 2 had a better Multiplayer setup. I just use referenced games from other games ive played as well as NWNs.
NWN was just plain normal. Nothing made it unique and I dont see why this game deserves an RPG of the year award in anything except being one of the only games to have that DM setup. I've played way to many rpgs to actually say this game is good. It's nothing spectacular. WarCraft 3 had a much better storyline and that was almost cartoonish in graphics but then again it ran smoothly together that it just looked really well done. NWN was bland and the graphics were poor. Dungeon Siege had much better graphics and a whole lot better single player game. The quests in NWN were also short and pointless. They offered no good rewards half the time and whats the point of owning a pub if you cannot even go back to the map.
Then again people are going to complain that NWN was not supposed to be a Single Player game. Well touch crackers. I expect this game to have a good single player and a great multiplayer for it to be even considered a good game not to mention a RPG of the year. You could even tell in the game half the time, the graphics were older in places and newer in others. It was just crappy to view. The gameplay was decent but nothing new. I find the people who say this game is great is usually the people who have not played the game all the way through. If they would notice the game they would see everything is so repetative.
Anyways..complain all you like if you think im a flamer or a hater or a fan boy. I have my opinion on what I think a RPG of the year should have or even a good game and this game did not meet expectations for all the hype. Think im going to go play a good RPG like Dungeon Siege or hell even a good MMORPG just because the experience is much more enjoyable in the long run. |
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Sun Jul 28, 2002 12:10 pm |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
It's odd to see you write that nothing made it unique and that it's the only game to have a DM setup like this.
I don't like Diablo 2 Multiplayer as it's nothing else but a level up tredmill. If you play NWN like that, then I think that Diablo 2 MP is indeed better and more rewarding. I don't think it was designed to be like Diablo 2, otherwise they would have included ways to go beyond the level 20 cap. If you play it as a simulation of a P&P game then the level 20 cap is more then enough.
If you find a decent group that is willing to play 'in character' then an MP session of Neverwinter Nights can be very rewarding. Unfortunately, ther aren't that many servers to be found where you can do that.
If this is not the way you want to play NWN, then it's just the wrong game for you.
The graphics are good enough fo me. For me they are not an important factor in rating the game. I like NWN for the 3E rules and how it allows me to create the character that is 'me'. Something Dungeon Siege or Diablo definitely did not allow me to do. Both games I never finished. I gave up on Dungeon Siege rather quicly as I found it to boring for my taste due to a sever lack of a decent story, regardless of the graphics.
Comparing games is always tricky. Comparing individual aspects of NWN and comparing them to the best games in that aspect (in your opinion) is a bit unfair. After all you are not comparing all elements of those games to NWN.
If it deserves an RPG of the year award? I don't know. Xen rated it with 88%, which about would be my rating as well. There are still RPG's coming out during the rest of the year, so I wouldn't go sending out awards just yet.
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Sun Jul 28, 2002 1:16 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Not to mention the games that have come before it this year. Morrowind is going to get RPG of the year, despite a rather lackluster and boring main storyline. It's graphics were great, the modding was good, the sound was good, the music (what little there was) was good, the character development was interesting. It's a solid CRPG despite its flaws... and Rendilius gave it a staggering 97%. I don't think any other game reviewed by RPGDot this year will do that.
Freedom Force came close... but it wasn't a 'true' RPG so won't really be in the running.
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:18 am |
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