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aj142
Village Dweller
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 18
Location: LA |
| How many people think RPGs were better in the old days? |
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I’ve actually seen it posted that RPGs aren’t what they used to be.. does anyone agree with that? |
Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:44 pm |
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Gish
Almighty Gish
Joined: 27 Apr 2002
Posts: 249
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina |
no, I think RPGs are getting better all the time. people learn from their mistakes...
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"It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible." |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:02 pm |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
You mean, they were better 10 years ago?
Some were. Some weren't. The thing is: just tend to remember hust the good ones and to forget the crap. 
Personally, I think that the genre has advanced a lot.
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Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:03 pm |
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DevilsBane
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 39
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I have come full circle in a couple of days......
The other day I poseted in the "Are CRPGs dying" thread, and I thought no...now however I dont know what to think.... I dont think "Dying" is the right term...but how you put it, were they better in the old days sounds about right.
I BEGAN CRPGs on NWN, and then played Morrowind, and then some of Arx Fatalis..... NOW initially I thought WOW thsi RPG style gaming is actually good!! (I was a pure FPS or Strategy player before NWN)
Ok so now I have just purchased BG II...and it hits me like a brick. NWN, Morrowind, Arx..all nice games...but not ONE of them is anywhere near as good as BG II in terms of gameplay and depth......
Maybe its true, maybe CRPGs are dying sort of, or at least turning into something else and leaving their true fun behind them?
I have only had BG II for two days, or at least this is my second day, and I can safely say I love it already. Its a great game, dated graphics or not, its better than all three of the other put together.
If this party based , deep and complex epic CRPG style is the past then yeah, I think they were better in the past..........
If I had played BG II and things first, I imagine the newer RPGs would be a dissappointment to me... |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:28 pm |
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Korzen
Forsaken
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3673
Location: The User Groups Section. |
Well the old Rpgs had their own magic but now it's over. |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:58 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
DevilsBane, many people here consider Baldurīs Gate 1 as the begining of the new age of RPGs.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:09 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
OK, here we go again 
I play since 1993. During this time my favorites changed: original Pool of Radiance, first Wizardies, all three Beholders, Krondor, TES: Arena, TES: Daggerfall... The old school. It was good. Damn, it was so good! But wait -
- Fall of 1997 - Fallout. Was it much worser? Don't think so. It's my mark for the middle ages in CRPG world. Then Renaissanse - Baldur's Gate, Planescape, IceWind, all the sequels... New era: Wizardry 8, NWN, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege. These games are certainly not bad. Genre evolves, things change. OK, for instance, I might not like removal of character kits in IWD2 and its rather strange way to get the declared 90 hours of gameplay (endless back-and-forth), but IWD2 is still a good game. It has charm, it has character, it has story, it has history. What else? Companies cannot make each game to be unconditional 100% hit like BG. Live, play, then play something better - that's it.
BTW when it comes to *magic* in old RPGs, it was certainly not so OpenGL, as today, huh?
DevilsBane, I'm glad you're liking BGII. It shows a good taste In fact, D&D is my favorite system, in table-top too - so I'm clearly prejudiced, but I think that Infinty-based games ARE the best in so many ways that it makes them simply the best overall. |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:51 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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MY first CRPG was The Bard's Tale, which I played back in '87. Although I never finished it, it is still one of my favorite games of all time. Why? Because I had freedom. I spent months (real time -- ok, I was only a kid back then, I had plenty of free time  ) walking around the city, finding new dungeons and secret places -- without even touching the main plot. Then there was Betrayal at Krondor, with its huge world to explore. After a brief stint playing the EoB series, I found myself playing Daggerfall. Again, the freedom to wander around the world, the feeling of being "inside" the game, finding different quests every time I started a new game. And then the Fallouts, which allowed a good amount of freedom, and BG1, in which I could go exploring forests and towns with little care for the linear story.
Then, IMHO, it's all downhill from there (with a few exceptions, of course)...
Instead of striving to create more freeform universes, utilizing increasing CPU power to create better random quest generators and improve NPC AI, designers opted to create more linear games. For example:
BG2: no longer could I spend nights walking around the cities stealing into houses -- only the "plot-critical" sections of Amn are there...
Morrowind: they chose to drop random quests altogether, drop random towns, and do everything by hand. "The plot will have more depth," the developers said, "and cities will look better." Do they, compared to Daggerfall? I don't think so. And now, the quests look exactly the same whenever I start a new game...
I grew up on games that allowed a lot of player freedom -- Pirates!, Civilization, Simcity, Privateer, heck, even in Police Quest 1 I could go driving around the town as I pleased. The focus today, however, has shifted drastically to graphics and "deep", "original" almost linear plots in canned, static environments -- at the expense of the player's freedom. A few recent titles have are the exception. Take Gothic, for instance. Although its story is mostly linear, the universe felt "alive", the NPCs felt like people with their own motivations -- they actually reacted to my own actions. Furthermore, I had a lot of freedom in that game: I could go hunting monsters in the woods, or explore hidden towers, without caring for the main plot. So, in this aspect, I believe that, for the most part RPGs were better in the old days. Just my 2 cents...
edit: couple things
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Last edited by goshuto on Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:25 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
@goshuto - Very good point about freedom of... everything. Very true. But, again, I believe it's a genre development. Simplier linear stories for newbies, ok? Not every one of them is as enthusiastic as DevilsBane here
I think RPGs are to make full circle soon. Depth-design-depth-design. You see, that's how you built good RPGs - gradually. Trust me, balance it's not a simple thing. I've been Dungeon Master for quite a few table-top games and can say that making a good adventure is everything but easy.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Depth and freedom will come. Allow yourself to play smth. more simple for a change. |
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Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:49 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
I am playing rpgs since the mid 80s. There were always good, bad and mediocre games. The two trends I really don't like are:
1) many modern rpgs are not challenging. (easy combat, puzzles, saving is possible anytime)
2) there is often a glut of easy enemies dropping lots of eqipment and weapons - no fun at all. It is much more satisfying, if equipment and weapons are rarly and difficult to find.
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=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild= |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 12:18 am |
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Jericho
Chicken?
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 1535
Location: Toontown with the SANDY BEACHES |
I'd say they are getting better.. well.. when you first played one of the old RPG's you were like WHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEE.. and now when you play one of the newer ones you are like ..whee..
but if you compare a newer one with an older the old ones loses.. big time!
dont ever try to play an old game you really liked.. the lousy graphics and the total lack of ai will only make you remember the game in a less positive way.
_________________
Never argue with the insane. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
And according to Lintra it is contagious
Quote from Val to Jericho: "You're an evil little cat, you know that."
Quote from Dhruin: "*Sigh* If only I was as perfect as Jericho"
Quote from Mr Roach: "We all wish we were perfect as Jericho" |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:15 am |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by HiddenX
1) many modern rpgs are not challenging. (easy combat, puzzles, saving is possible anytime)
Very true. In Bard's Tale one could only save at the Adventurer's Guild. One of my most memorable CRPG moments came from trying to get my badly hurt (but full of loot) party out from some dungeon.
quote:
Originally posted by Jericho
dont ever try to play an old game you really liked.. the lousy graphics and the total lack of ai will only make you remember the game in a less positive way.
I thought the same thing. Until I tried replaying an old favorite RPG of mine a few months ago; let me say that, after the initial negative impact because of graphics and sound, I found myself playing that game for hours...
quote:
Originally posted by stanthony
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Depth and freedom will come. Allow yourself to play smth. more simple for a change.
I fervently hope you are right.
_________________
"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:22 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
umm what planet are you from? Of course they are getting better. Must i make a comparison? Okeys how about compare Ultima 1 with Morrowind. Which one is better? Its easy. Figure it out  BTW just because someone posted it, doesnt mean its true |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:28 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
umm what planet are you from? Of course they are getting better. Must i make a comparison? Okeys how about compare Ultima 1 with Morrowind. Which one is better? Its easy. Figure it out BTW just because someone posted it, doesnt mean its true
I totally disagree unless one wishes to judge a game based upon more modern graphics (then of course Morrowind will beat any 20 year old game hands down). In many ways I far preferred Ultima I. It satisfied me in ways that Morrowind (and other modern games as well) do not. Morrowind pretends to be ground breaking - Ultima I WAS and didn't have to pretend at all.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:59 am |
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Jericho
Chicken?
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 1535
Location: Toontown with the SANDY BEACHES |
I must say that it seems with looks comes stupidity..
meaning, the better it looks and the more complicated it is the more bugs there is...
cant seem to remember any of the old games having all these bugs we see today.. hmm..
_________________
Never argue with the insane. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
And according to Lintra it is contagious
Quote from Val to Jericho: "You're an evil little cat, you know that."
Quote from Dhruin: "*Sigh* If only I was as perfect as Jericho"
Quote from Mr Roach: "We all wish we were perfect as Jericho" |
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 3:08 am |
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