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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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2-handers get their strength bonus x 1.5. So an 18 strength will give you a +6 damage (+4 x 1.5 = +6)
double weapons give you an extra attack, but add a -2 penalty to all attacks. And take two or three feats to get to that point.
In the end, both weapon types will do well. Yes.. greatsword is a big chunk of damage, but the extra armor class early game of a magical shield can't be downplayed. Late game, just like tabletop, unless your shield has some 'special' powers it often is better to wear a ring of protection in its place and use a two handed weapon.
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:56 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
What about the double bladed sword, axe, mace etc.?
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:03 pm |
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EverythingXen
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Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Those are double weapons. No different than wielding two weapons... except they do more damage on average. Great if you have the feats and don't mind being hit every time something swings at you.
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:09 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
2-handers get their strength bonus x 1.5. So an 18 strength will give you a +6 damage (+4 x 1.5 = +6)
double weapons give you an extra attack, but add a -2 penalty to all attacks. And take two or three feats to get to that point.
Aren't double weapons also two handed weapons and will therefore benefit from the x1.5 str bonus?
And what feats other than Martial weapons do you need for them??? Additionally, do you always do -2 to hit with double weapons?
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:16 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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A double weapon requires two hands to wield, but isn't a two handed weapon. (AH HAH! LOST YOU THERE!!!  )
You get the extra damage because of the extra force you can exert by using two hands. Grab a baseball bat, go out side, find something non-breakable, and give it a good solid whack with the club (baseball bat) in one hand. When your hand stops ringing take the bat in two hands and repeat the experiement. When sensation returns to your hands go back inside.
Now... imagine a quarterstaff, which is a double weapon. Held in the center, spun, put through its paces. You don't get that extra 'thwak' power... but you do have a well balanced and fast weapon. If you held the quarterstaff by one end with both hands and thwaked someone on the head with it you would get the extra strength damage... but it's not being utilized as a double weapon any longer.
Double weapons require Exotic weapon proficiency, ambidexterity, and two weapon fighting. The best you can get is a -2 to hit with each hand, and an extra attack. By default it's -8 with no ambidexterity or two weapon fighting, so take those feats.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:23 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Double weapons require Exotic weapon proficiency, ambidexterity, and two weapon fighting. The best you can get is a -2 to hit with each hand, and an extra attack. By default it's -8 with no ambidexterity or two weapon fighting, so take those feats.
Then why on earth would you EVER want to use a double weapon? I can certainly get a MUCH nicer combo of enchantments if wielding 2 weapons, than one weapon.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 6:27 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Double weapons require Exotic weapon proficiency, ambidexterity, and two weapon fighting. The best you can get is a -2 to hit with each hand, and an extra attack. By default it's -8 with no ambidexterity or two weapon fighting, so take those feats.
Then why on earth would you EVER want to use a double weapon? I can certainly get a MUCH nicer combo of enchantments if wielding 2 weapons, than one weapon.
Hehe it's a bit confusing! But this is how I would explain it.
- 1-hand weapon + shield = Low damage, High protection, Normal hit changes
- 1 weapon for 2 hands (ex doublebladed sword, greatsword) = More damage, lower protection, Normal hit changes
- 2 weapons for 2 hands (Ex 2 longswords) = Probably most damage, lower protection (like 1 weapon for 2-hands), Lower hit changes, needs more feats to master, more magical posibilities, as there are 2 weapons!
Ofcourse the magic capabilites of the weapons can tip the scale from one type to another. My choise was between the 2-handed weapon, or two weapons wielding, I'm not much of a hide behind the shield man. I got a lot of hitpoints as a fighter, so I'm capable to take a lot of beating, however my current magical greatsword +2 with "keen" and additional "1d4" fire damage, accompanied with "improved critical" and "cleave" feat don't give my opponents many changes to hit me before they hit the dirt in melee combat. Ofcourse the feats for Weapon focus and Weapon specialization for the greatsword do a lot for my attacking capabilities as well.
I have however found a few very powerfull 1 handed swords with many good magic capabilities, and if I were to use 2 of them for the 2 weapon choise they could add each others magic capabilites to a very interesting level, however I will need to aqcuire the feats for the longsword first, so I guess I will stick to my greatsword this time around, but if I should start over again with a melee character I might go for the feasts for 2-weapon use, just to feel the actual difference.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:14 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Double weapons require Exotic weapon proficiency, ambidexterity, and two weapon fighting. The best you can get is a -2 to hit with each hand, and an extra attack. By default it's -8 with no ambidexterity or two weapon fighting, so take those feats.
Then why on earth would you EVER want to use a double weapon? I can certainly get a MUCH nicer combo of enchantments if wielding 2 weapons, than one weapon.
1) They look cool
2) In pen and paper, each side is enchanted seperately so you can get the wicked enchantment mixing powers.
Two long swords each do a d8 damage, but both being medium sized weapons the penalty to hit when you max out ambidex and two weapon fighting is -4/-4 primary/secondary hand.
A double-sword also does 1d8 per end... but since it's one weapon that requires intensive training to use the second end counts as a LIGHT weapon, not a medium. So when maxed out it's -2/-2 primary/secondary. So the double weapon does the same damage for less of a penalty.
That's the reason to use double-weapons. In addition, they are harder to disarm (because they count as large weapons and weapons held by both hands).
I've never seen anyone use a double-weapon in table-top because of the extra feat. I've always meant to... but haven't for one reason or another.
Hey... if you take a half-fiend template, get some tattoos, and get 'brilliant energy' enchantments on both ends of a double sword... you get to play Darth Maul.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:39 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Rangers get Ambidexterity and Two weapon fighting at level 1. So, it would make sense for Rangers to use double weapons as their close-in solution?
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:10 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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By the rules of pen and paper, Ranger's can't use their special feats for fighting with double weapons... (I don't know why. Robin Hood, Little John, et all couldn't use a quarterstaff properly? I don't think so!).
I scratched that line out in my Player's Handbook with a pencil. 
I think in NWN they'll let it slide as well... but I haven't tested it yet.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:47 am |
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HeWhoHasNoName
Lord of Sorrows
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 1500
Location: The Land of Kangeroos |
I have been too busy with school and playing for the last couple of days I havn't had the chance to chech back here. I am understanding it a little more now. All I need to know are what skills does what and what effects what. The rest like counting damage and stuff can be taken as higher is better.
With my dwarf I have decided to make him a double weapon fighter because of the fight scene with Darth Maul. I did it before I read these posts so it had nothing to do with all your debating. I don't have to make the perfect character but I have to have the perfect of that type of character. In Diablo I made a melee sorc.
I can just imagine myself now at a higher level. Parrying all the monsters attacks with my two bladed light- I mean sword. Oh and weapons. I didn't expect to have them all available near the start. I don't get it yet but the magic stats have something to do with making the weapon better. All the magic items cost so much so they must be good. Oh, and I have this longsword that says plus 1. When I go to examine it in the shop to identify it I can't. I can see the button but it is grayed out.
The good thing now is I have something to aim for with the feats. With the class I'm going fighter all the way to keep it simple. With the abilities or whatever they are called (strength, dex ect.) I only get like 1 per level and I'm and following the recomendations. I'm not quite sure about the skills though. I think there is only about five that fit my class so I'm sticking with these. Oh and is parrying affected by my armour. I think thats what the armour check penalty is.
Could someone recommend what I should get for my character. I know to get the feats to have the penalties go down to -2 on both of them and to get the feat where it gives me another attack. From there I do not know anything else. How do I get it to specilise in the weapon that I want it too?
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 7:52 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Yes, armor check penalty applies to parrying.
Keep in mind, you can only parry one attack per attack that you have... so it's great in one-on-one duels... but not too good against groups of enemies. Even higher level where you get more attacks. However, it is a cool skill and looks neat.
You want ambidexterity (need a dex 15), two weapon fighting, exotic weapons, weapon focus, weapon specialization, and improved critical to get the most out of your weapon. I'm not sure if they have improved two weapon fighting in NWN or not (haven't gone that route yet)... if they do, grab that too.
If you want to go parry nuts wear light armor, get skill focus: parry, have a high dexterity, and look for gloves of swordsmanship (I was tripping over +6 ones in chapter 1... but haven't seen them since).
As for magic weapons... higher is better. A +2 sword is better than a +1 sword. Also, though, look for special properties listed at the end of the weapon statistics. Things like 'immunity to mind effects' can be more important than another 'plus' enchantment. If 'identify' is greyed out, it means the weapon IS identified.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:13 pm |
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HeWhoHasNoName
Lord of Sorrows
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 1500
Location: The Land of Kangeroos |
I not sure but I think I read somewhere in the manuel that you can parry as many attacks as you can make in a round. So with a double weapon I can parry two attacks. When I get the special skill that gives you another attack I can parry three. Well the manuel could be wrong.
With the weapon focus, weapon specialization, and improved critical feats how do I get it to do the weapon that I want. Do I just have to keep putting points in them until I get two blanded sword.
Also what skills do I need. So far I have only been raising parry and discipline each level. Does discipline raise your damage or does it just help you resist some attacks. Do I need to get concentration or heal or lore?
Thanks for all your help.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:23 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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When you put a feat into weapon focus, just click on Two-bladed sword on the list. it should be there if you have Exotic weapons. The same with weapon specialization and improved critical.
Weapon focus you could grab really early (right after exotic weapon, ambidexterity, and two weapon fighting... so if you're human level 2... if you're not then level 3). Weapon specialization you can get at base attack +4 (so level 4 if you're a pure fighter). Improved critical requires base attack +8 (so level 8 if you're a pure fighter).
Skills are largely optional as a fighter. Parry and discipline. Lore if you can. Pick locks or search or disarm traps as a cross class skill if you have a really high intelligence score.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:56 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
By the rules of pen and paper, Ranger's can't use their special feats for fighting with double weapons... (I don't know why. Robin Hood, Little John, et all couldn't use a quarterstaff properly? I don't think so!).
I scratched that line out in my Player's Handbook with a pencil.
I think in NWN they'll let it slide as well... but I haven't tested it yet.
When I was rerolling Ranger characters, I kept getting confused because I would get Two Weapon Fighting as a pickable feat after few levels. Turns out Rangers dont' get Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity at level 1. They get a different feat that has the effect of those two put together. There is a difference, in my mind, but the documentation doesn't make it. That could be what you were talking about. It could be that that Ranger feat does not allow for double weapons.
--Edit--
Oh and quarterstaff isn't a double weapon. It's a two handed simple weapon.
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Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:46 pm |
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