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| What's the purposse of our life |
| To raise a family or to have money |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
| To enjoy while I steel can before I die |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
| Other write here. |
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61% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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[quote="Darrius Cole"]
quote:
@Everyone
A couple of people said that they were turned off by Christianity. Which one of the Christian ideals is offensive? Which one of the 10 commandments turns people off? What did Jesus say that was such a bad idea? Was it "love thy neighbor as thyself?" Was it "if thy brother repents then thou shalt forgive him?" or Was it simply his claim to be the Son of God?
@Xen
A person can look over his own life and tell what was the greatest influence on it. I suspect, but only God and each person know, that people who went to church as children, but rejected Christianity, had another major influence or event in their lives that pushed or pulled them away)
The first commandment. It makes God sound jealous or threatened... when I feel that the Truth of His existence shouldn't be tied to patronage by humanity. That He, like a mother that rolls her eyes when her son comes home with blue hair, patiently waits for people to figure it out after they die and then welcomes them home. It shouldn't matter that without this commandment that Christianity might have become a footnote in its infancy: God wouldn't have ceased to exist as a result. Why is our belief so desirable to our creator?
The command to honor your father should have sufficed.
As for Jesus ... I tired within the first 100 pages of the new testament reading him draw comparisons (often unfavorable, though never mean) to Jews in their Synagouges. Why did it matter? They were pious and righteous people following God in their own way. Surely the Son of God could have appreciated that.
I refuse to believe that God gave the first commandment and that Jesus talked about the Jews in any length. To me those are the flawed words of an imperfect human trying to interpret the words of the Divine through imperfect human context.
As for the greater reason to stop going to church? Simple. When I was 12 I was asked by my parents if I still wanted to go. God vs sunday morning cartoons and goofing around with my friends? Friends 1, God 0.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:21 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
By EverythingXen(condensed)
The first commandment. It makes God sound jealous or threatened... when I feel that the Truth of His existence shouldn't be tied to patronage by humanity....Why is our belief so desirable to our creator?
His existence is not tied to patronage by humanity, the benefits of being a follower of God IS tied to a person's patronage. You don't understand the relationship between God and his people. It is not that of a King(God) to his servants(people). It is close to (but not exactly like) that of a Husband(God) to his Wife(people). God does not SEEM to be jealous; he IS jealous, the Bible says that outright. But is that really unreasonable? Can a wife(person) really honor her husband(God) if she attempts to honor others in the exact same way? What about your wife?
quote:
They were pious and righteous people following God in their own way. Surely the Son of God could have appreciated that.
No, it is not enough for followers of God to follow in there own way. People who follow God have to search to find God's way. Believing in their own definition of righteousness is a common mistake among people. We have thought and thought about it and conclude that we have to be right. Still, we sometimes get it wrong after careful consideration. Our misinterpretation skews the way we see everything else and causes problems for ourselves and others.
About...Jesus. He said a lot, far too much to explain in a post. About talking to Jews, he was in Israel, who else would he talk to? In short Jews had developed a distorted view of The Law, suffice to say that the proper view is this
quote:
By Jesus Christ
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Matt 22:36)
2. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matt 22:39)
You have to view the Bible in that context in order to get a proper interpretation of it.
@Lintra
I read your post. I agree with the facts of what you said. I say that in a situation like this religion is not the cause but rather a tool that is being misused. The cause is the evil of the leaders. If they could use something else to motivate the people more effectively they would. Take the current US/British war in Iraq for example. The leadership claimed the the reason was Weapons of Mass Destruction in IRAQ. Now that they have not been found the war has not stopped. There have been no apologies to what was then the Iraqi government. That's because the war is not over WMD's. It was a useful front issue. My claim is that the so-called religious wars are almost always similar to this; with religion being a front issue.
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Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:17 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
For example: the crusades launched first by Islam and later by the Christians.
We both know those Crusades were to relieve the stress of overpopulation in Europe. 
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Make good choices. |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:48 pm |
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tolgerias
High Emperor
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 770
Location: The Netherlands |
I totally agree with you Darrius!
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If you can't debate without namecalling then don't bother visiting us. -Myrthos |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:42 pm |
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Schattenherz
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Nuremberg, Old Europe |
Life is a Joke at our expanse. You don't believe me ? You just haven't reached a Punch-Line 
_________________
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
-Nietzsche |
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:02 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, to me, God must be a perfect being. If God Himself is not perfect then there can be no such things as perfection. Therefore the God I believe in does not possess such human frailties as jealousy. He isn't threatened by free thought among the beings He created. He doesn't care about the advance of science because He is the source of all things beneign, including medicine of all sources.
If I am right and God is an all knowing perfect entity then He will judge me on my positive assets (and hopefully forgive all the books I stole from the school library as a child) whether I have venerated him or not. If I'm wrong I'm going to Hell anyways so I will hold fast to my beliefs.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:35 pm |
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Patriot
Small Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1421
Location: Athens,Greece |
I think that God just watch and wait till he makes his move.
_________________
(Firefox_Mythos)(Παντος)Reaperfox(Ρουβαλης)Tezafox Katsaridoktono(Ντουσικος)Che(Ταγαρης)Crusader(nokos)shadowfox(Μηχελης)aquafox(Στελιος)thunderfox_gomos(Γιωργος) |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:40 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
For example: the crusades launched first by Islam and later by the Christians.
We both know those Crusades were to relieve the stress of overpopulation in Europe.
Oh yeah. That and a desire on both sides to engage in a forced cultural exchange. *grin*
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:41 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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The Laws of God are there for the benefit of mankind, not God. God is perfect and can not be injured the action or inaction of people.
You have Jealousy  , and then you have Jealousy  .
Jealousy means that you are looking at someone else and not wanting them surpass you in any way. They may deserve that particular success more than you do but you don't care. Ex. "Bob's got a new car. He thinks he so great. Well, I'll show him." Jealously is focused on what others are doing and not what you are doing. It tries to hold them back and not to advance yourself. I would call that a frailty.
Jealousy means that you deserve something and you want to keep it. The strongest example I can think of is a man's wife (spouse). Ex. I love my wife. I take care of her financial well-being. I spend time with her, I listen to her complain, put up with her good and bad moods, etc. Some other man likes her and wants to spend time with her. I won't allow that, because I am jealous . I am her husband. I deserve her affections; he doesn't. If she should spend time with him in spite of my objections, she will incur my wrath, because I am jealous . Jealously focuses on my actions and is a natural by-product of love. I would not call it a fraility. In fact, if I were not jealous of my wife, she would probably be better off with a man who was.
Two different emotions but the same word. Perhaps it should be translated differently.
P.S. I am not really married. I was just trying to get my point across.
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:17 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
Oh yeah. That and a desire on both sides to engage in a forced cultural exchange. *grin*
You forgot the term, "mutually beneficial."
_________________
Make good choices. |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:23 pm |
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DA UNDERTAKER
souls will cry
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Athens, Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by patriot
I think that God just watch and wait till he makes his move.
According to the bible, God doesn't "sit" and "watch". he's everywhere!!! |
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Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:40 pm |
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Patriot
Small Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1421
Location: Athens,Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by DA UNDERTAKER
quote:
Originally posted by patriot
I think that God just watch and wait till he makes his move.
According to the bible, God doesn't "sit" and "watch". he's everywhere!!!
When I say sits and watches I mean he's everywhere and watches but doesn't do anything.
_________________
(Firefox_Mythos)(Παντος)Reaperfox(Ρουβαλης)Tezafox Katsaridoktono(Ντουσικος)Che(Ταγαρης)Crusader(nokos)shadowfox(Μηχελης)aquafox(Στελιος)thunderfox_gomos(Γιωργος) |
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Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:36 am |
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titus
Survivor of Hell
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Standing at the Hell mouth |
I totally don't believe in perfection, it doesn't exits, and that means god isn't perfect , IF the poor sucker exist. Like they said in JUrassic park: God created dinosaurs, god destryed them, God create human, Human destroyed God. And according to me everything what he stands for. look at the world today. If he exists he has already sentenced everyboy to an hell on earth 
_________________
Want to become a vampire? a warrior in the battle between vampires and werewolves?
http://monstersgame.nl/?ac=vid&vid=12007139 |
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Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:12 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Yes, because we all know that having good friends, finding someone to love, raising families, enjoying cable TV and the internet, being free to pursue whatever vocation or hobby we want (so long as it's legal), being free to speak our mind on any matter, living longer than we ever have, and having computer games to play is the very definition of a life sentence to hell on earth.
As for the jealousy thing... nosir, I don't buy it. If another man is interested in my wife (it happened when I was married) I will not be jealous. I will trust her to not be interested back... or at least not to act on it without serious thought. You can't blame a guy for being interested in your wife, after all... if she was wonderful enough for you to fall in love with then surely she's wonderful enough for others to as well.
If she is interested back and has an affair... that is her choice and she must live with the consequences. It takes two to have an affair and the fault lies with both parties.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:50 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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So, if a man asked you for your wife, you would say, "Yes" or "I don't care"?
Man: (knocks on door)Knock, Knock
Robert: "Just a minute." (Opens door)
Man: "Excuse me Mr. Robert. My name is 'Man' and I live next door. I have noticed your wife and how beautiful she is. I really would like to have sex with her... on a regular basis if that's okay with you."
Robert: "Well, you have to ask her. But, if it is okay with her it is fine by me. (yells peacefully) Honey!!! There's a man up front who wants to speak with you."
Robert's Wife: "Hey, I'm Mrs. Robert. What's up."
Man: "My name is 'Man' and I've been noticing you for a while. How would like to go out sometime? I was thinking dinner and a play. Then we could come back to my house next door, for some passionate sex. We could have vaginal sex, anal sex, oral sex..both ways, use toys, bondage, the whole nine."
Mrs. Robert: (Jokingly) "or the whole 69. Ha, ha. Well, sure, it sounds good to me, but you have to ask my husband. I don't work and he pays for everything. I don't want him to stop."
Man: "Me neither, I want to have an affair for an extended time but I don't want to be responsible for your well being, though..."
Robert: (interrupts) "Oh, don't you worry about that. I not jealous at all. This affair won't change the way I treat you one bit. I won't even get a mistress. When you two are gone will just wait for you to come back. Who knows, I may even have a gourmet dinner for two ready when you get back."
Mrs. Robert: (Speaking to Man) "Well, Robert and I were about to go out, but I guess I could just we could go out instead."
Man: "Cool, let's go. I can't wait to get you home."
Robert: "You two are leaving? Well okay, these opera tickets only cost one week's salary, but hey, I go back to work Monday so I'll make more money."
Mrs. Robert: "Robert, can we drive your car? It's all clean and I want tonight to be special."
Man: "I'll Drive."
Robert: "Sure, I am not jealous at all. Here are the keys."
Man: "Thank you, Mr. Robert."
Mrs. Robert: "Thanks, dear. We probably will be up late so I'll be back by noon tomorrow."
(Man leads Mrs. Robert outside by the hand to Robert's car. He seats Mrs. Robert in the passenger's side then he gets into the driver's side and they drive off.)
To not be Jealous you have to let her have the affair and not care. You have to be aware that she is having an affair, not be angered by it, not change your behavior towards her in the slightest, still love her, still desire to keep her, and still be determined to be a good and kind husband to her even though the affair is common knowledge.
Surely, someone as intelligent as you are can appreciate that some words have multiple meanings. You have to appreciate the context that the word is used in order to get the appropriate meaning. People always say, "his wife flirted with some man trying to make him jealous." The word "jealous" in this context does not imply irrational insecurity.
You are saying that Robert behaved properly. You are saying he should have no jealousy under any definition at any time. What you are also saying is that God should be like Robert above. He should know that it is his world, that he made it and you; yet allow you to worship others and not punish, or withhold blessings from you in any way; and still protect you and bring you into heaven without you even asking forgiveness.
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:30 pm |
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