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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
As most people know, I'm not a fan of the Codex, and the feeling is mutual. However, they do write interesting and often entertaining reviews, this being one. I thought VD was trying to be fair and while I disagree that it doesn't really cater to playing a 'pure mage' with 100 in Destruction, I'm a LOT more powerful than a rocket launcher. I almost never use any of the staffs I have anyhow.
Most of his criticisms are valid, but using mods fixes many of them. Again, another debate about whether 'out of the box' is the correct way to review aside, with these mods I am enjoying the game. Do I like the fact I'm led by the nose? NO, but I'm an old timer. I enjoy thinking. Unfortunately, my teenage son prefers to put his brain in neutral when game playing, so I guess it caters for the larger demographic!! 
_________________
If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:12 am |
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.Twinfalls
Guest
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Corwin, that Cleve/Rex stuff was 'Old Codex', there's new blood there now - any mud thrown your way over that stuff should be disregarded, as it's all really very silly.
What did people think about the use of the developer quotes? Personally I found it not only very amusing (surely our friend Gavin was jesting with us', but something which is well overdue in reviewing (not that mainstream sites would ever dare question their lifeblood - bullshit hype.)
With just Morrowind (Fargoth's Gold) and now Oblivion, Bethesda are now the God Kings of Bullshit Hype. The sheer amount of old-fashioned snake-oil puffery ('radiant AI') all the way to outright lies ('the bookseller was not scripted') just beggars belief.
And not a word about it elsewhere, which makes the Codex at the cutting edge on this aspect.....
As for the game itself, there's a ton more he could have savaged, had he wanted to - it's outright failure as a continuation of the role-playing standards set down by Daggerfall (let alone improving in any way) is an indictment of what that company has become, given they are willing to cheapen the Elder Scrolls game-world in such a brazen way. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:03 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by .Twinfalls
What did people think about the use of the developer quotes?
I like it in general - a guy at GameSpy (I think ... it was one of the biggies) did something similar when called to task for a quote used on the Splinter Cell PSP game ads. He took his preview and review and did a comparative article. It was nice to see because you could understand how these quotes come about.
Mike
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:25 pm |
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Guest
Guest
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I didn't read the whole review as I got bored. I agree with some of his points and disagree with others. I think Hype sucks and unfortunately Fans demand huge amounts of pre-release info before a game is released and the developers provide it on demand. I prefer the days before having the internet when id buy a game and the only info I had was a short article in some game mag. Nowadays we get flooded by screenshots, previews, developer diaries, trailers and other shit. Hype and info flooding causes spoilerization and disappointment.
I think Oblivion is a great game. Any flaws it might have are outnumbered by the good bits.
As for Gothic 3. If it has the same crap controls and shitty UI as the first 2 then I'll pass on it. I laugh when people say the OB UI is bad when the Gothic series has far worse and I've never seen anybody complain about that. Then again nobody can say it was 'dumbed down' for consoles. Heh. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:15 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Unfortunately the review language is typical Codex - over the top as usual. Really - the inflamatory stuff harms Codex credibility in my opinion. This sux. That sux. It all sux. Well... the persuasion game certainly sux - but enough with the sux stuff.
I guess I must have missed that part could you link me to the review that you've read?
I probably shouldn't say this because if you find that review inflammatory then you'll certainly take offence to this: You miss the point of the review. It is as much a critique of the gaming media as it is of Oblivion, so it's not surprising that you would find it inflammatory. Sure, if you're caught in the hype and posting previews and features about how Oblivion's going to be the next best thing since sliced bread, then yes, this review will go against the grain because it contradicts a self fulfilling prophecy of fake perfection that gaming news sites have helped to create. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:48 pm |
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doctor_kaz
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Location: West Virginia, USA |
The review at codex is somewhat over the top, but it does have some legitimate criticisms. I think that it's a result of all of the glowing reviews that completely fail to point out any of the game's faults. It's somewhat of a natural reaction to seeing a game get nothing but near-perfect scores and feeling like you're the only person on earth who realizes all of the negative consequences of stuff like level scaling.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest
As for Gothic 3. If it has the same crap controls and shitty UI as the first 2 then I'll pass on it. I laugh when people say the OB UI is bad when the Gothic series has far worse and I've never seen anybody complain about that. Then again nobody can say it was 'dumbed down' for consoles. Heh.
You must not have seen me rant about it yet then. I have complained pretty bitterly about Gothic's terrible interface and controls here and in other nerd web hangouts. If it weren't for Gothic's crapy interface, controls, and irrititating combat, the series would be better than the Elder Scrolls series. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:26 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
I really don't get all the Gothic control complaints. It took me a few hours to get used to Gothic 2's simplified alternate control scheme (keyboard + mouse) but after that it was second nature. Gothic 1 can be played the same way too.
Its like anything else - you just get used to it.
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"For Innos!" |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:37 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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quote:
Originally posted by Rendelius
What they don't get: There was a lot wrong with Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind. There is a lot wrong with Oblivion - but the whole is more than the sum of the parts. And that's why each and every of those games is a classic, including Oblivion.
The problem though, is that DF and MW always seemed to point foward in a way, they were attempts at this elusive goal of creating a fully believable fantasy world and make it fun to play in. Df was astounding in its mere scope and the many options and things to do. MW added a truly wonderful outdoors to explore and more lore and world detail than you could shake a stick at. To me at least, Oblivion seems to have lost that forward momentum it's refined, beautiful, easily accessible. It's even fun. But it has regressed from the direction I saw the series moving in. It has become simpler. The things i thought had the potential to really bring something new to the gameplay have fallen short - Stealth isn't that much better, physics are mostly a graphical feature, horses not much more than DF's stick horse, and RAI, while a nice addition, certainly hasn't brought any emergent gameplay, and comes with a lot of occasional silliness. That's how it strikes me, and that's why I cant help being dissapointed. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:53 pm |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
quote:
Originally posted by Seven from the Codex
quote:
Originally posted by Dajjer
quote:
Originally posted by txa1265
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
Did you read the whole thing? Did you go there with an even remotely open mind? Can you actually refute any of the stuff he says?
The last one is what surprised me - I read the whole thing, but went to the site with a load of assumptions and baggage, but actually agree with most everything he says. Yet I still love Oblivion ... which is one of the amazing things for me - how can a game that has so many problems be so good?
Mike
I read the review and while there were a lot of points I agreed with, his tone and word choice clearly showed his basic prejudice against the game, before he even opened the box.
And this is in contrast to other reviewers who were clearly biased in favor of the game before they opened the box. Their tones and word choices were even more excessively slanted, calling Oblivion nothing short of perfection - was it Gamespot who said that Beth was poised to dethrone Bioware as the RPG king despite having not played the game? It would appear that you're perfectly willing to excuse excesses towards Oblivion which are positive than accept a negative critique, or is it just that it's a Codex review so despite it's honesty and relevence you feel the need to detract from it?
Touchy aren't we? Did you write the article. hahahahahaahaha
My post said nothing about the Beth hype machine and I certainly made no illusions to whether or not I was excusing their excesses.
Thanks for playing. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:26 pm |
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doctor_kaz
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Location: West Virginia, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
I really don't get all the Gothic control complaints. It took me a few hours to get used to Gothic 2's simplified alternate control scheme (keyboard + mouse) but after that it was second nature. Gothic 1 can be played the same way too.
Its like anything else - you just get used to it.
The interface was positively terrible. The inventory didn't even have mouse support. It was built like a 1980's DOS game. It was even worse than most console ports that I have played. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:02 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Let's not turn this into a Gothic discussion, but I just have to make a short reply:
- The controls in Gothic are great once you get used to them, as you have much greater control over your moves - you can control each swing personally, sideways, forward, left, right, make your own combos etc. Unlike most games there is actually a decent amount of skill involved, and the best Gothic players can take down trolls and orc elites at level 1 with a stick, due to pure skill(it takes 5-10 minuttes though, as they are so incredibly more powerful than you at that point).
- The inventory is crap. It's better than Oblivions' because the font isn't HUUUUGEEEE, it resizes with the resolution, so if you turn up the solution you can see almost the whole inventory at the same time. That's the biggest issue of the interface in Oblivion - it doesn't resize(you can mod it ofc). Still, both games suffer from a bad inventory solution.
Just my opinion.  |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:05 pm |
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HardCode
Guest
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I;m not sure how Rendilus thinks the Codex doesn't "get" the issues with Arena and Daggerfall. They are the first ones to point out the faults. The review was solid. It made great use of throwing back Bethesda's own PR bullshit in their faces. And it was an honest review. However, the zombie fanboys won't ever see anything else then what they are programmed to see.
Oh, and about Gothic II: great, immersive RPG world, horrendous controls. I'd take horrendous controls over horrendous RPG world for an RPG game any day, however. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:24 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I think Rend is simply saying that DF had its own failings but often gets put on a pedestal without recognition of those faults.
@Guest with the Gothic controls, honestly - you haven't actually read any Gothic discussions if you haven't seen criticism of the UI. Every Gothic discussion goes like this:
1. Hey, anyone ever played Gothic?
2. Played it for 10 minutes. The controls sucked and I've never touched it again.
On the article itself. I enjoyed it and very much agree with many of the points. I think some OB's better points were overlooked or dismissed, which makes it somewhat unbalanced and the developer quote technique is interesting - overall it's more of an editorial than review. Before someone jumps on me, I don't have a problem with a site balancing the ledger against the wave of unremittingly over the top reviews from major sites, so overall, a thumbs up.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:43 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
Every Gothic discussion goes like this:
1. Hey, anyone ever played Gothic?
2. Played it for 10 minutes. The controls sucked and I've never touched it again.
My story - and probably that of many others - is not so different.
1. I bought Gothic 2 right after KotOR came out because people on Usenet said it was 'teh r0x0rz'.
2. I played for ~30 minutes, died repeatedly, hated the UI and controls, and put it aside for a few weeks.
but then
3. I came back, persevered, learned and ended up with my favorite RPG of all time.
IMO, Oblivion has no learning curve.
Mike
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:38 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
What I will never understand about the Gothic controls bashing is a) why the original Tomb Raider (and sequels up to when Gothic was first released in 2001) never received any criticism for bad controls (quite the contrary actually IIRC) and b) how people who complain about Gothic's controls ever managed to play Tomb Raider.
In fact, if you're a Gothic controls bash0r *and* have played Tomb Raider, then I must suspect that all you ever did in Tomb Raider was stare at Ms Croft's digital tits instead of playing the game .
Seriously though... there's a more than striking similarity between both games' control schemes. The only thing that takes some getting used to (in Gothic) is the 'ctrl + [arrow key]' stuff, but elsewise, anyone who has played at least one of the Tomb Raider games, should be able to play Gothic blindfolded. The game (Gothic) doesn't have a controls issue. The 'issue' is sitting two feet in front of the screen. That's what's the issue . |
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Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:23 am |
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