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Clandestine
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Johnson City, TN |
Because you have no response or justification...
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"The Scots Character is Forged in Granite. That is no Timid Reed. Shaken by the Wind. " |
Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:59 pm |
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Pelle
Guest
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I wouldn't mind, as long as it was done nicely.. On the other hand, I can't imagine it would be. Considering a world based on medieval Europe, nobody would be openly homosexual, and it would all be far more awkward than it is today.
The sort of shallow, lame romances that most often occur in RPGs would seem even more shallow and lame if they were homosexual, IMO.. |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:52 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Clandestine
Because you have no response or justification...
I would suggest both of you keep your political opinions for yourselves. This discussion leads nowhere. Thereīs no chance youīll find a consensus. A radical conservative and a liberal point of view are just too different. (Both terms chosen from a central European perspective. No assessment of the position intended.)
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:57 am |
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Clandestine
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Johnson City, TN |
Gorath, I wasn't aware that we had to leave our political positions at the door when we posted on the forum. Are there any other positions that are off limits as well? If so, please post them so I'll know not to cross the line.
I am doing nothing more than exercising my First Amendment right to free speech, which the liberals would surely not condemn, and conservatives would agree with, so I am not sure who, if anyone, I could possibly offend. Thank you for your suggestion, but I choose to think for myself rather than accept your suggestion.
I am not looking for a consensus, or even for someone to agree with me. Heck, in fact, I couldn't care less if anyone agrees. But I strongly disagree that the discussion leads nowhere. Rather, I believe that people standing for what they believe in is strength. Of course, believing strongly in something may be a foreign concept to many central Europeans (this is not an insult, just an observation).
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"The Scots Character is Forged in Granite. That is no Timid Reed. Shaken by the Wind. " |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:47 am |
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Vival
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 39
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"I am doing nothing more than exercising my First Amendment right to free speech"
Yeah, but a internet forum isn't a democracy nor the USA nor any other country. It's more like a dictatorship where the admins and moderators are the benelovent dictators. |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:13 am |
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Clandestine
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Johnson City, TN |
Vival, that is an excellent observation. That is where I have had it wrong the whole time. So I suppose we are allowed to say anything, so long as the admins and moderators agree with it.
I would suggest, if it is appropriate to suggest on the forum, that the moderators and admins refrain from asking controversial questions, if they do not want to get controversial answers. Don't ask a question that might start a thread like this if you can't accept the responses. The moderators and admins should be the last ones to complain, or to make suggestions, since they themselves started this whole thread (which I think is fine myself).
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"The Scots Character is Forged in Granite. That is no Timid Reed. Shaken by the Wind. " |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:07 pm |
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Vival
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 39
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quote:
Originally posted by Clandestine
I would suggest, if it is appropriate to suggest on the forum, that the moderators and admins refrain from asking controversial questions, if they do not want to get controversial answers. Don't ask a question that might start a thread like this if you can't accept the responses. The moderators and admins should be the last ones to complain, or to make suggestions, since they themselves started this whole thread (which I think is fine myself).
Indeed, too bad. Even though I'm pretty liberal and I don't share your views on this topic it's still interesting to read opinions that differ - no matter how extreme - from my own. I find it annoyingly boring to see 'discussions' where people basically are doing nothing else than reassuring eachother in their political, religious or whatever views, avoiding any controversy. |
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Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:23 pm |
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Lorgosin
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 69
Location: Sweden |
Sorry if I offended anyone, I just feel very strongly about religious extremism. I got out of it when it was getting a bit too heated. I also realize that I will not get anyone to change their views, but I don't see any problem with discussing anything for the sake of discussing as long as it doesn't get unfriendly (something which was here the case, partly due to my post, which I apologize for). Political discussions can be rewarding without anyone changing views. I am sorry for the tone of my post, but not the content. To put it more diplomatically: I think that in today's society most people should have realized that the bible had some good advice 2000 years ago but that today atheism and reason is the way to go. That's my view. Anyone who likes to believe that there's an old man in the outer atmosphere, deciding over our lives, may do so, just don't try to impose it on the rest of us.
Pelle: From a game world point of view I agree that it would be kind of wierd in a D&D setting, but if they do manage to get it in without it seeming strange I don't mind it. In an ancient greek setting the game world would be strange without it. That's not to say I would play through a gay romance (as a straight man I find it uninteresting), but I wouldn't mind the option.
Last edited by Lorgosin on Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:56 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Clandestine
Gorath, I wasn't aware that we had to leave our political positions at the door when we posted on the forum. Are there any other positions that are off limits as well? If so, please post them so I'll know not to cross the line.
Of course you can post whatever you like, as long as itīs not insulting. Experience during the Iraq war has shown that itīs unlikely somebody will change his opinion on political or social matters, though.
Furthermore you shouldnīt underestimate communcation problems caused by different definitions of certain terms. 'Liberal' and 'conservative' have a different meaning for a German than for an American, and the parties these words stand for would _both_ be on the middle-right, if projected onto the German political spectrum. Of course still within the intervall of democratic parties, and not ultra right-wing ( = Nazi). The word 'liberal' describing a party would be the FDP ( a small party mainly for entrepreneurs); describing the ideas ( ... freedom!...) it would be exactly in the middle of the political spectrum, which is not specifically covered by one party.
Just as an example how difficult comunication between people from different countries can be.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:26 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Lorgosin
To put it more diplomatically: I think that in today's society most people should have realized that the bible had some good advice 2000 years ago but that today atheism and reason is the way to go. That's my view. Anyone who likes to believe that there's an old man in the outer atmosphere, deciding over our lives, may do so, just don't try to impose it on the rest of us.
I thought "I'm not even going to dignify that with a response." was exactly the correct response.  Most things Clandestine wrote are outdated, to put it mildly. Not even the catholic church would go that far here in Germany. Especially mentioning the two words 'homosexuality' and 'evil' in the same sentence is absolutely unacceptable here. You lose your credibility when you say intolerant things like this.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:57 am |
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Clandestine
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Johnson City, TN |
In semi-civilized countries like the U.S., especially in the South, many people still have proper moral and biblical values. It is sad that in places where the Reformation was begun, like Germany, people have become so brainwashed on the religion of self-indulgence in the name of tolerance. That you wouldn't hear "homosexuality" and "evil" mentioned in the same sentence shows just how far your country has degenerated into apostasy. You shouldn't be proud of that, but rather ashamed. And as for tolerance, I have never and will never claim to be tolerant. In fact, I don't know why that is such a virtue to many people. Tolerance is simply a person saying that they are too weak and afraid to stand firm on issues, or that they just don't believe in anything at all. You may be proud to be tolerant (weak and mindless) but I am not. I have lost NO credibility, because those who would support me find me credible, and those who do not support me would have never found me credible to begin with, or are too thoughtless to know the difference.
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"The Scots Character is Forged in Granite. That is no Timid Reed. Shaken by the Wind. " |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:13 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
"Semi-civilised countries like the U.S.", "believing strongly in something may be a foreign concept to many central Europeans" -- marvellous stuff. I have enjoyed your underhanded insults.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:37 am |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
I couldn't agree less with the conservative point of view Clandestine and some others express; I am the owner of the site and thus a moderator - and still you can post here and say what you think. So much about your whining about "censorship".
No, you just have to live with the fact that a lot of people simply don't agree with you. Take my home country, for example. A recent poll shows that 56% of the Austrians think that it would be a good idea if homosexual couples should have the same rights about legal marriage as heterosexual couples. Your southern, conservative point of view would be a small minority here - and I wouldn't call the Austrian people "liberal" at all  .
By the way: how could loving another person be "wrong", just because the other person has the same sex? I suspect that most conservatives think about homosexuality as being mainly a sexual thing (a guy in a plate male humping another guy) - but it is not. It is an EMOTIONAL thing. I further suspect that the same people that consider homosexuality to be "wrong" would call interracial relationships "wrong" as well (in fact, I know some of these folks and this is where I get my ompression from).
And one last thing: don't mix up tolerance with having no point of view. Tolerance is only possible when you have your own standpoint, but tolerate others as well. Take me, for example: I wouldn't want to be in a homosexual relationship, but I have NO problem whatsoever if others choose to have it. I even tolerate your point of view that homosexuality is "wrong" - but I will ALWAYS stand up and tell you why I don't agree, even if I tolerate it as long as your standpoint doesn't start to opress others.
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Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:46 am |
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Guest
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It never ceases to amaze me that the nation with the greatest infatuation with anal sex this side of ancient greece is so hung up about homosexuality ... me thinks they doth protest too much. |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:39 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Clandestine
In semi-civilized countries like the U.S., especially in the South, many people still have proper moral and biblical values.
'"proper" moral values' is a matter of definition, nothing more. Whether "biblical values" are still up-to-date almost 2 thousand years after this book has been written is more than doubtful. This book was a quantum leap when it came out, but now we simply know a lot more than its authors then and the worldīs situation changed.
So you have a firm position and you stand to it. "Tolerance" is weakness, countries believing in the freedom of the individual are "degenerated"?
Can you see now why a discussion with you is a waste of time?
Iīm tolerant enough to let religious fundamentalists have their own "values", even in semi-civilized countries like the USA or Iraq.
You are decades behind your time. Thereīs no need to convince you to change your position. Itīs enough to let you talk. The more you talk the more people see that intolerance is not their cup of tea, extreme situations aside.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:32 pm |
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