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Raldor
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 107
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Just have to say, I'm loving the game. I'm thinking I'm about 1/2 to 2/3 through and I'll finish it unless something terrible happens.
To answer your questions, it's not really dark through most of the game, though there is a day/night cycle so it will be dark sometimes even in towns. Hawkwind summed it up nicely.
The sci-fi appears throughout the game and is a big part of the story. If this really turns you off, you might not like the story or even the game, although I always thought I wouldn't like it (the sci-fi element) and I'm actually finding it interesting now that I'm playing it.
I can't really argue with most of the negative comments posted here for Wiz 8. They're mostly true, but my preferences are different. No doubt about it, the game has tons of combat and it's not easy combat either. You will rarely run into a trivial fight, and the game scales many encounters to match your characters power. In other words, when you start the game in the monestary at level 1, you will run into low level monsters, but if you come back at level 10, the encounters will be scaled up so that they're still tough fights. I see this as somewhat of a negative and some people absolutely hate it and I don't really blame them. I always like coming back to old areas and noticing how much more powerfull I've become. I should say, when you run into really tough cookies (and I've met a few) and kill them, they do stay gone.
I really think the combat system is excellent. I've always been a fan of turn-based combat and this may be my favorite system yet. I am especially happy with the way they handled ranged combat and movement during combat. There is also a continuous phased option, but I haven't used it enough to comment on how it works. I haven't had too much trouble with the difficulty although I admit it's far from being as simple as many RPGs. I've left the setting on normal so I don't know what effect changing to novice has, but I've heard it helps. Nothing helps more than good tactics though, and there's no shortage of those posted at the official message board for the game. http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5140
I've seen TONS of posts on that board from people complaining about the difficulty when they haven't taken the time to read the manual or familiarize themselves with the combat system. The combat actually plays somewhat like a strategy game. The direction your party is facing makes a big difference and if you don't pay attention to the indicator that shows which way you're looking in combat, you can end up with your mage on the front lines taking hits from the monsters while your fighters stand behind him doing nothing or shooting with their bows. It's really not as complicated as it sounds and once you understand the system, this won't happen, but needless to say if you don't take the time to learn the system the game will be next to impossible. BTW, I'm not implying anyone posting here has done this, it's just something you should be aware of if you browse the official board and see threads like "THIS GAME IS TOOOO DAMN HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!", with message bodies like "WHY IS IT MONSTERS ALWAYS KILL MY MAGE DAMMIT!!! EVERY TIME THEY DO IT ARGGHHHH THIS GAME SUX!!!!". I've even seen threads from people that are angry because the game is hard when they want to use a party of 6 rangers or something. Anyway, sorry for that little rant.
I don't think anyone would call it a story driven RPG, but I'm enjoying the story. It doesn't guide you too much or force you down many paths, but you usually have a pretty good idea of some things you need to get done next. I'm liking how there's several factions going for the same goal as you and you decide who (if anyone) to allign with. I actually get irritated in lots of games when I have to go to town and click through endless dialog trees with countless NPCs, so I guess I'm not really a story driven RPG guy.
I also love the character creation and advancement system. There are lots of races and classes to choose from, and there are plenty of stats and skills you can raise at level up and they also improve with use. This is one of the strongest points of the game IMO.
I'd say the game's main focus is combat and character development. That may sound bad to some, but that's always been what I liked about this style of game, so it's perfect for me. I admit every now and then, I just want to get to the next area to move the plot along some, and get annoyed by the millions of enemies I encounter on the way there, but usually I just welcome the opportunity to gain some more exp and practice my characters' skills.
I'd really recommend getting the demo. It's a very good indication of how the game plays except you don't get to create your own party so you miss one of the best parts. If you can't get the demo, I'm really not sure what to tell you. I'd love to tell you to just get the game so it could sell well, but I can't do that because obviously it's not for everyone. Maybe you should list some RPGs you liked and some you didn't and why. |
Sat Dec 08, 2001 5:17 am |
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Avatar
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Dec 2001
Posts: 5
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quote:
On 2001-12-06 18:57, Hawkwind wrote:
[It makes you want to shoot the programmer, the developer & the distributer of the game, as well as all the people who raved about it (not necessarily in that order)  Then shoot yourself.
Hmm...I think you've just put me off the game Although I like lotsa fighting in an RPG, I don't want it to be a chore, you know what I mean? A game is supposed to be fun, and not something you're supposed to wreck your brain over thinking about strategies and tactics before each battle.
Anyway, I'll see what the others have to say - Maybe they can change my mind |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:40 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
On 2001-12-07 23:17, Raldor wrote:
To answer your questions, it's not really dark through most of the game, though there is a day/night cycle so it will be dark sometimes even in towns. Hawkwind summed it up nicely.
That's good then. I just hate games that are too dark, making it very difficult to see monsters and items.
quote:
The sci-fi appears throughout the game and is a big part of the story. If this really turns you off, you might not like the story or even the game, although I always thought I wouldn't like it (the sci-fi element) and I'm actually finding it interesting now that I'm playing it.
I think this is my biggest deterrent of the game. I absolutely hated the fact that M&M had blasters and androids towards the end of the game. It totally ruined what would've been a classic game for me. I've always like medieval RPG's better and I really thought Wizardry would've been exclusively medieval.
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I really think the combat system is excellent. I've always been a fan of turn-based combat and this may be my favorite system yet.
The combat system in M&M is still my favourite. To reiterate what Hawkwind said, I like the fact that you can switch off turn-based and run away from a difficult battle rather than endure through what would inevitably be certain death and another "reload".
quote:
I actually get irritated in lots of games when I have to go to town and click through endless dialog trees with countless NPCs, so I guess I'm not really a story driven RPG guy.
This actually has won me a few points. I hate endless dialog as well. I remember playing Planescape: Torment and I just got sick of reading through everything, so I skipped the dialog, and guess what? I missed to whole storyline, which was supposed to be the games' strong point! If I wanted to read, then dammit I'll just get a fantasy fiction novel!
quote:
I also love the character creation and advancement system. There are lots of races and classes to choose from, and there are plenty of stats and skills you can raise at level up and they also improve with use. This is one of the strongest points of the game IMO.
Ok, I guess things are starting to even out. I also like char. creation and building up a party, so it's not that bad after all
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I'd really recommend getting the demo. It's a very good indication of how the game plays...
Unfortunately I'm on 56k, and it's like 128mb d/l or something, so it'll take ages.
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Maybe you should list some RPGs you liked and some you didn't and why.
Ok, my first ever RPG was Pool of Radiance on the Commodore 64. I loved that game, it came on four disks and was the largest and most immersive game I ever played at that time. It was turn-based combat, but then again it was my first ever RPG, so I had nothing to compare it with.
Might & Magic would definitely be my favourite series (I've only played 6- , with the exception of the sci-fi element. I loved the vast areas to explore and also like the combat system.
Baldur's Gate was pretty good too, but I prefer first-person and not too much dialog.
Diablo was really more of an action/adventure game so I didn't really like it.
Final Fantasy VII & VIII suprised me quite a bit. Although it was a typical Japanese style console RPG, it really had me hooked.
So I guess the main things I look for in an RPG are:
* Large areas to explore
* Choice to use turn based combat if necessary (even the Baldur's gate "pause" function is useful).
* Preferably medieval setting
* First person is a bonus
* Character creation and party building
* Lots of quests and side quests, although not the ones where you have to "kill the spider in the basement and return for 10 pieces of gold".
* And of course, good graphics and atmospheric sound.
My favourite RPG to this point is MM6, but it was far from perfect. It's something I'm still looking for in an RPG.
BTW, I just got Ultima IX, and am playing it at the moment. The graphics are beautiful, but the gameplay is really crap so far.
I think I'm inclined to get Wiz8 although I don't have a good feeling about it. I guess there's nothing else to play at the moment - Gotta wait 'til the end of March for MMIX!  |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 11:20 pm |
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Guest
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Damn, how come I'm posting as anonymous when I've already logged in?
It's Avatar with the previous post BTW |
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Sat Dec 08, 2001 11:42 pm |
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Hawkwind
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Oct 2001
Posts: 54
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quote:
On 2001-12-08 16:40, Avatar wrote:
Hmm...I think you've just put me off the game Although I like lotsa fighting in an RPG, I don't want it to be a chore, you know what I mean? A game is supposed to be fun, and not something you're supposed to wreck your brain over thinking about strategies and tactics before each battle.
I must say, if I had to place the blame on ONE aspect of the game as to why I stopped playing it and deleted it forever - that would be the endless non-stop combat. While I WAS able to win many of the battles - it just got ridiculous. I simply got tired of it. The first few times WAS fun - but it was battle after battle after battle, and only moving a short ways down the road - I wanted to GET someplace!!! And it just wasn't happening. You eventually get there, but as I said in another post - it takes SO long, you forget WHY you wanted to go in the first place!
I really had no other complaint about the game. It is rendered beautifully, and the NPCs look good. The atmosphere is very compelling, and provides very much a 'being there' sort of feeling in the game. It's just that, for me, these aspects of the game were ruined for me by the endless combat. Frankly, the game never gave you TIME to explore much, and enjoy the atmosphere - it was always throwing monsters at you non-stop. Who had any oportunity to do much more than fight?
quote:
Anyway, I'll see what the others have to say - Maybe they can change my mind
Sure, I mean mine is only one opinion - if you can get past the fighting emphasis and get to the meat of the game - go for it. Just because it wasn't MY cup of tea - doesn't necessarily mean it won't be YOURS.
==Hawkwind==
[ This Message was edited by: Hawkwind on 2001-12-09 12:36 ] |
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Sun Dec 09, 2001 6:34 pm |
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Guest
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Have played around 20 hours of the game, and think I can mingle in this discussion now!
I'm in Trynton, the town in the treetops and my characters are all around level 10 by now!
Got a wide selection of character types including NPC's.
This is my comments on the issues so far.
1. Graphics: My first impression is the appearance of the gameworld. Nice and sometimes very nice (Ex. The shining floors in the temple of Anika, Wow). For an RPG it's really nice, we are not used to that polished stuff in a 1. person view game.
2. Character development: Complex and interesting. Just putting the right team together did cost me the most of an hour. And the fact that you only is bound to the race, makes the further development more interesting in terms of making choises. Lots of traits, magic books and stats to invest your hard earned levelup points in! Great.
3. Combat: TurnBased with buildin movement possibilities exactly like Might & Magic's latests release. The absense of realtime combat makes it tougher to flee from combat, but none the less maybe more realistic. You can try to run away in the TB combat, and you will succeed, if you survive your opponents last attemps to stab you in your back while running away.
4. Difficulties. There have been a lot of writing here about the endless battles and the number of opponents. I admit that with this in mind, I started the game with the easiest difficult setting. As I found the exit door from the monestary, I was expecting 100 of red dots on my radar, and I clinged my party up against the walls to keep my back free from attacks, while sneaking along the road, with one eye on my radar all the time. I had (only) 3 encounters on my way to Anika town, and I managed to win my fights without the use of restore game! The fights were challenging, but certainly not unfair. I guess in numbers, the 14 "Mites" was the highest number of opponents. After resupplying and a few fights in Anika I travelled the road to Trynton. 4 Encounters, challenging, but again not unfair or impossible. I only had to restore once, because I got surrounded in the open area and got backstabbed. Reloaded and ran for a wall corner, turned my party towards the enemy with my 2 tough fighters in the front row to take the most beating. A few minutes later all the enemies was eradicated! In Trynton town I did confront some very powerfull "Tree mages" which gave me a hard time, until I figured out to lure them out to the local guards, who immidiatly attacked the mages, and I still got all the credit in experience points for their deads. I even got money from the guards, who died in this battle against evil!
I don't no if my version of Wizardry is tweaked in relation to the US version, but I don't seem (so far) to have these redicolous difficult battles as some mention here, and certainly not that many battles! Yes, some battles are very challenging, but I expect them to be so!
5. Story: Well I'm stucked on a unknown planet crashed in my spaceship! I'm looking for some kind of symbols to get or prevent some kind of power. I run into a Computer now an then, a scanner, keycards and even a flying robot eye, but I still think that the Scifi elements are dimmed down in relation to the traditional fantasy medieval world (until now that is). I prefer fantasy to Scifi, so no complains here.
6. Conclusion for the time being: I must say I'm hooked to the game. We can always discuss the taste of the combat system, and surely come up they pros and cons without getting any final verdict we all can nod to, but I like complex and very stratetic minded battles where the outcome depends of each of your choises, and not so much of how fast you can hit the keyboard! Wizardry 8 certainly give me that, without putting me in a hopeless situation. It's a matter of taste and temperament, but I like it very much!
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Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:30 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
I posted the one above, I don't no why my name don't show |
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Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:34 am |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
i agree that the wizardry8 combat system is a matter of taste and temperment, it is just too bad that it leaves a foul taste in my mouth.
_________________
"The origin of things, if things have an origin, cannot be revealed to me, if revealed at all, until I have travelled very far from it, and many revolutions of the sun must precede my first dawn. The light as it appears hides the candle." --Santayana
=member of the worshippers of the written word=
=member of the Non-flamers' guild= |
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Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:17 pm |
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Max Killen
Exalted Potentate
Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 1112
Location: Why not Minot? |
I would suggest getting the demo first before you decide on whether to buy the game or not.
I bought the game and wasn't too impressed the combat system at all. After playing any of the new games, you will think you playing a game from the mid-nineties.
The graphics and at times very good and at other times very poor.
I'm not going to take the game back; but then again, I'm not playing it now either. I'll just save it for a rainy day. Opps, it's raining here now, so I'll put it off for a sunny day.
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Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:39 pm |
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Guest
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Just a quick anonymous comment--the game was actually quite dark on my computer until I turned the gamma up...and then all the lighting was much more realistic. So possibly lots of the screenshots that were dark were from non-gamma-corrected computers. But if you're inside, without a Light spell going, and the only illumination is from a candle...then guess what, it will be dark!
I haven't yet gotten past the monastery (only bought the game yesterday) but hopefully I won't have the deluge of monsters that seems to be common.
And another suggestion for a 1st-person RPG--Demise. It is most definitely not for everyone...but if you enjoy killing new and different monsters, finding lots of treasure, and a cool community that spends hours trying to figure out the best character class/party combination, check it out. You can play multiplayer too, more or less.
http://www.artifact-entertainment.com/demise
Game on,
The Oneiromancer |
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Sat Dec 29, 2001 12:48 am |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
Well I'll kick in my 2 cents.
Wizardry is a very hardcore CRPG, very stats oriented, it does bug me somewhat that they used the nonstop combat to 'pad' the playing time, hey just give us fewer combats, fewer monsters and ramp up the experience points to balance things out. There's this little thing called 'exploring' and 'puzzle solving' that's appealing to many CRPG fans. An 'adventure' mode similar to the Xeen series would have been a nice addition, a mode of playing that de-emphasizes combat and focuses more on exploration and puzzle solving.
Also, I like dungeons and areas to 'stay empty' at least for a while after I've cleared them out.
The graphics are nice, the multitude of items is pretty cool, the interface is a little cumbersome, monsters ALWAYS find a way to flank your party, even if you have your back to a wall, but you know even with all the 'warts' I still love this game. It's the way they made CRPG games in the 80's, and frankly this will be probably the last time we see something this complicated. Manufacturers have been 'dumbing down' CRPG games for years, especially with the advent of 'real time' combat, which I absolutely cant stand.
I'd give this game a go, or at the very least wait until the price starts to come down, I like it a lot personally but it's not for everyone.
Oh and have to agree with the recommendation of Demise, definitely a 'Rogue-like' game, but fun. Also as far as old school games go, Spiderweb software's Exile series is a lot of fun once you get past the weak graphics.
http://spiderwebsoftware.com/
[ This Message was edited by: Sir Markus on 2002-01-27 23:10 ] |
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Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:02 am |
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FrankyK
Village Dweller
Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 5
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I think the bottom line is that Wizardry, although one of the finest series' ever created for PC, is not for everyone. If your taste is for games like Diablo (Whoever decided that this game should be categorized as RPG deserves to exiled to one of their own dungeons.) or Half-Life, then chances are you won't enjoy Wizardry.
The key element of succeeding in this game is creating and maintaining your party. Now, try though they might, people have not been able to come up with 'the perfect party', and there's a very good reason for that. The perfect party differs depending on your playing style. The perfect party for me (and one that I'd be able to take to the end of the game) is probably very different than the perfect party for you. I might have serious problems playing with a party that you'd be very successful with.
Now if you aren't familiar with this approach, the first party you create is probably going to fail miserably and you might have to restart the game a few times before you get the hang of it. If your Ranger sux, it's probably because you're not developing him correctly. If your Mage keeps dying, you're not protecting him properly. If your Rogue is ineffective in combat, you're doing something wrong. Etc., Etc., Etc.
Alot of people who play more recent evolutions of the RPG are not accustomed to the amount of thought required by a game like Wizardry. Bonus points can't be arbitrarily assigned if you want to do well. You really have to have a clear understanding of how each member of your party functions and this takes careful thought and planning. The proper equipment, although secondary to stats, is also important. Using Hunter Quarrels when regular Quarrels are sufficient is wasteful. Using regular Arrows on a tough mob when you've got a whole stack of Barbed ones is going to make the battle a little tougher than it should be. And sometimes it's wise to sit back for a minute before a battle starts and make some decisions. If you go chasing a Bandit who's 'fleeing for his life', there's a chance he's going to lead you into an ambush.
This is not everybody's cup of tea and if this concept is a turn-off to you, then you're probably better off playing something else. But if this is something that appeals to you, then you won't find anything out there that even comes close to the Wizardry series.
There is a very large emphasis on battle in this game, but that's because party development is what this game is all about. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone I know, but I highly recommend it to certain people.
I, personally, would have been happier if they'd steered clear of the Sci-Fi elements. But it's a very small blemish on what I consider to be an incredibly satifying and rewarding experience. |
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Tue Jan 29, 2002 5:38 pm |
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Ramza
Village Dweller
Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Posts: 9
Location: depths of hell |
the game is weird.....to many crabs at the start of the game and then when u move around it like ur walking in a box ...and its also a shame u cant see ur character shooot hteir bows or anythng...i dont really reccomend this...a game like gothic is much better...and even thought they have different styles of gameplay it is still much better |
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Sat Feb 02, 2002 2:00 pm |
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