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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
I really like Baldurs Gate 2 (Baldurs Gate 1 was a little boring except the final city) and many other D&D games like
Planescape Torment
Pool of Radiance 1
Icewind Dale
Menzoberranzan
....
but there is one i *hate*:
memorizing and praying for specific spells sucks !
with this rule the efficiency of mages/clerics goes down. So i have always to rely on the fighters in my party in the final parts of these games where u can't rest.
Better solution:
have a regenerating mana pool, and cast every spell you've learned until the mana pool is empty - drink a mana potion or absorb mana from enemy spells and the casting goes on ...
Hx |
Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:04 pm |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
I don't hate it. It's inherent to the D&D system. That said I must say it happens a lot that you just run out of spells at the wrong time 
_________________
Kewl quotes:
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Reports Myrthos for making me scared and humbled at the mere sight of his name - kayla |
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Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:07 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I always play RPGs with mages. I simply like it.
But in games like BG it is surely more difficult than in Wiz etc. (where you have only spell points limitation (and you can use mana potions etc. to recharge it)).
But my opinion is that though that are mages in BG serie games very useful character. Especially in later parts of game when they grow powerful. |
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Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:13 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The 'memorization' rule is the ONLY check to a mages power. Remember, in tabletop D&D a mage may know HUNDREDS of spells by the end of his career. Having access to all of them, even with a mana point limitation to it, would make him omnipotent. There would be no point to playing a class besides mage. By having to carefully select which spells he'll need, he must work with a party to cover his 'blind spots'. Or better yet another mage. A party with two mages is about 5 times more powerful than a party with 1.
Memorization isn't a big limitation. Sorcerers get spontaneous cast at a cost of maximum spells known (a dozen instead of a hundred). It's actually, at high levels, not a fair trade off. Although in pen and paper, the sorcerer (if he's smart) loads up on metamagic feats... and THEN the sheer verstility in casting options makes up for the loss of spells.
Most important... memorization is a fundamental aspect of D&D. If you take it right out... the game becomes... well... any other RPG on the market.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:26 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
EverythingXen
ok,,the 'memorization' rule is a check to a mages power, but in my opinion this is a rule made for tabletop gaming.
in computer games i want to be able to cast *e v e r y* spell i have learned, limited only by my actual magic power (mana). Good examples:
Daggerfall / Wizardry / Might & Magic / Dungeon Master / Wizards and Warriors.
Hx |
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Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:29 pm |
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Bhaal
Village Dweller
Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 13
Location: Belgium |
When you let the mage in BG2-ToB work with this system you can go siglehanded through the game without a party. This will spoil the gameplay for BG2-Tob. The mages are to powerfull there to give them let say unlimited use of there spells. I like to be a magic user but still am a fighter. Such as a battlemage. This should be implemented and not the manapool.
_________________
You can't escape your essence |
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Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:54 am |
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Maggot
Magister of the Light
Joined: 17 Jul 2001
Posts: 392
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland |
I think, what with the great number of powerful spells and artifacts, the mages in BG2 are powerful enough as it is. While I agree that mana points make more sense, introducing them to the AD&D standard at this point in lieu of memorization is too late. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:02 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It IS a rule for tabletop, but it's one that had to be implemented to stay true to the rules. After all, the game 'says' AD&D on it.
I've never run out of spells in BG2. Never. I've never found resting to be a problem... but if I even suspected that it might be, I either brought along another mage so they can stagger their spells through multiple combats or an extra fighter to conserve spells.
You can complete the game as a single mage, sure (I've done it) but it's meant to be a party based game. However, even solo... with magical protections and ample rests it's not too hard at all. Even alone I still never ran out of spells... so I guess I just don't see the need for a mana point system. Just use a lot of wands, scrolls, etc... they do no good hogging inventory space, after all.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:50 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
A wizard will always be more powerful in a game such as BG, and that is why the final battles always go against a spellcaster.
A mage in BG2 with a full arsenal of spells is invinsible both to magic, and physical harm, so it is necessary for a mage to have a restriction on his amount of spells without being able to reload.
Only thing is, you will have to rest more often. |
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Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:39 am |
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Shadow_Fyre
Head Merchant
Joined: 04 Apr 2002
Posts: 57
Location: NJ, USA |
Just look at POR II to see what the impact of not having to memorize can do. Clerics able to spontaniously cast ANY spell of their level. Memorization makes a person either specialize in a couple of types of spells eg combat spells (Sorry guys I can't teleport out of this maze, but I can cast meteor swarm on us)
The alternative is to generalize and take one of every spell you can cast. (Sorry guys I am out of fireball, but I can cast stinking cloud).
_________________
I came, I saw, I cast Death Wish. |
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Fri Apr 19, 2002 11:58 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I take the generalize approach as much as possible. I rarely have more than two spells of the same type memorized. My reasoning behind that is if I wanted to load up on 5 fireballs, I might as well have been a sorcerer (that way, should I need a fly spell, I wouldn't be stuck blinking stupidly with 5 fireballs).
Of course, that's tabletop where spell variety helps.
In BG2, of course I have all fireballs... there are other 3rd level spells?
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Apr 19, 2002 1:22 pm |
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