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| How best to implement death in a MP Module with DM? |
| Permanent Death (no respawn option) |
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41% |
[ 5 ] |
| Death with severe XP loss (Respawn with heavy XP loss) |
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41% |
[ 5 ] |
| Death with mild XP loss (Respawn with low XP loss) |
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8% |
[ 1 ] |
| No death penalty whatsoever |
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8% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
| Death in Multiplayer with DM |
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I was wondering how you think death should be handled in a multiplayer game with a DM to be truly as challenging as PnP can be.
Is permanent death the best solution to create a sense of dread in the players? Could that be the solution to stopping the "Diablo syndrome" where everyone runs around like fools?
Do players really care if the only penalty to death is a loss of XP?
Would a DM be looked on as a dictator if he imposes permanent death to characters in his module?
Please answer while considering that any given module is properly toned for the players that are playing the module, complete with fairly balanced encounters that are not too deadly for the level of the players.
EDIT: I've changed the poll options to reflect the inclusion of respawning.
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Last edited by Ekim on Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:44 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
After thinking for a while, I chose death with severe XP loss. I almost picked up permanent death, but then changed my mind. In a good and balanced session/module, players should be able to stay alive if they think what they're doing, so permanent death could be used.
When I'll be DMing, I'll probably choose the heavy XP loss, though. It all depends on what is needed to bring the player back alive.
In a high-magic setting, like forgotten realms, resurrection could be done via magic. If the party is high level and the party has a cleric, resurrection is probably the most likely alternative, although I think there should be a time limit, for example the ritual should be performent in the place of dying within 24 hours or the spirit of the player can't be reached and the body comes back to life without a mind. If the party does not posses the means to resurrect the player, it could be possible to bring the player to a temple, where a high-level cleric can perform the ritual. This would ofcourse cost a lot of gold.
The ritual should be expensive, both in gold and in XP. Even dropping levels could be an option. The DM could also give some penalties to the player, like dropped stats that would get back to normal in a certain amount of time. The resurrection-spell could also have some additional restrictions, making it harder to perform the ritual. Some additional components could be needed or the ritual could even require more than one cleric to channel the power. Also, when playing with the deities according to the real 3rd ed. D&D rules, they could impose some restrictions or special conditions. The cleric could also have to perform some kind of payment to the deity, in a form of a personal favor, or maybe even some kind of a sacrifice.
When playing in a low-magic setting, resurrection could be impossible, so then the permanent death should be used. When players have the threat of permanent death, playing becomes more interesting and rewarding.
In any case, death should be serious threat and resurrecting players, if possible, should be a hard task.
I haven't DMd NWN so far, so I'm not so sure how easy it is to keep track in combat. The difficulty slider could give DM some control over the battles and keeping the encounters reasonable should make dying not too common. When I DMd PnP games, regardless of the game, I usually kept players alive as long as they were innovative and played their roles. Stupid decisions got punished, but death was the last option. If the player committed acts that got him/her in unnecessary amount of trouble and especially when it was against the character, I would take off the silk glowes and let the character have it. Ofcourse the players newer knew this and they got their asses kicked often enough so that they didn't start guessing anything.
If the players start to complain about XP loss or permanent death, especially in a module with high roleplaying aspect, the DM should ask the players what they really want out of the game. If they really want just basic monster slashing, maybe they should find a module/group that suits them. If they want serious roleplaying, the should accept the rules and play accordingly.
The rules should also be told in the start of the module, so that everybody would know how these things is handled.
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:59 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Permanent death. There are ways around it with clerical magic, after all. I hate losing experience and gold. If the DM does a good job of balancing a module, a smart player shouldn't die if he works with a team. If he does... well... there are always scrolls of raise dead etc to bring him back. Is bringing an adventurer buddy back to the world of the living worth 1350 gold, even if you don't have a cleric? I think the answer is yes
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:13 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Personally, I think that DM could/should implement penalty for stupidity. If you run around like a fly without a head, and die, you should lose a lot of xp. If you die while valiantly defending weaker members of your party, you should lose little, if any, xp.
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:23 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
It defeats the purpose of having the wizard of the group paying thousands for some Raise Dead scrolls if the people can just get up without any penalties.
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Make good choices. |
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:58 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. When I re-read my poll options I think I'm not putting the finger on the problem. What I truly meant with permanent death in NWN is a bit like Xen mentioned: death without possiblity to respawn. Your character's life isn't necessarily over, but you can't just come back to combat your foes right after dying, dusting off only some XP loss.
Could not allowing players to respawn and having to wait for a cleric or anyone with the right power to resurrect him/her be the answer? Would that sufficiently impose a smarter way of playing so that you don't put your fellows in danger by dying?
Of course everything is always at the DM's discretion. There's nothing from stopping the DM from reviving the PC after the battle is over because the others just don't have the power to revive him themselves if he/she so wishes. But still the battle would have gone by, the xp distributed to others, and the PC would then have to suffer through the sermoning of his fellows for the danger that he put them in.
Is respawning in NWN making the PCs think they're invincible?
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:02 pm |
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OhBrandi
The Pun-Slayer
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1038
Location: Somewhere this side of sanity. |
Permanant death with only in game magical/clerical revival. I don't believe in penalty for dying (dying to me IS a penalty) but for good role play, if you cant get the body to a temple or a cleric or mage to the body, well, oh well.
I like people who think. So if there is no way for folks to 'cheat' death, then they will use their brains to make sure that death doesn't happen.
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Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:44 pm |
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SuperCowMan24
Blademaster of the Moo
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 1194
Location: Texas, USA |
permanent.
when i make uber lichmonster who is designed to make sure party Doesnt want to fight him cuz theyll die, i dont want them respawning 100 times till they kill him.
besides. monsters dont get back up do they??? NO!!!!
anyways. i make death another part of the adventure. if the whole party dies, i will take them to the Fugue plane, give them a chance to escape the afterlife, and have them fight some demons! better than respawning
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Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:36 am |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperCowMan24
anyways. i make death another part of the adventure. if the whole party dies, i will take them to the Fugue plane, give them a chance to escape the afterlife, and have them fight some demons! better than respawning
Ooh! I like that idea! 
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Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:06 pm |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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I think the death was handeled pretty good in Dungeon Siege actualy, that you would be able to respawn after some time... but i don't think there should be any penalty. |
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Tue Jul 16, 2002 11:08 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I think it should be permanent as well. Of course, if it's the DM's fault that the player dies, then I don't think there should be a penalty. For instance, if you make the module too hard and your players get wiped out, then that simply is not fair.
I also really like SuperCowMan's idea. In fact, I think I will impliment that. I'll create a "limbo" level for all my modules. There will be no treasure (afterall, who said there is treasure in the afterlife  ) and encounters based on the characters level. Perhaps I can make a quest related to escaping as well. With this quest you need to get specific items to perform the ritual to bring you back to life. You can either talk to get the items, trade to get them, or fight to get them, etc.
Yes, I like this idea. 
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 12:28 am |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Ok, so our level one's are going to venture through hell just to get back to delivering X item?
 How will death in the Afterlife be handled?
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Make good choices. |
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:20 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
Ok, so our level one's are going to venture through hell just to get back to delivering X item?
No, I think that should only happen when the entire party dies. Otherwise, it's plausible that the survivors would drag your dead carcass back to town and "respawn" you.
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
How will death in the Afterlife be handled?
Oblivion! 
Nah, you'd just have to start over. You're trapped in an eternal loop in limbo until you perform the ritual to escape.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:33 am |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
No, I think that should only happen when the entire party dies. Otherwise, it's plausible that the survivors would drag your dead carcass back to town and "respawn" you.
I think also for level one character the DM has to be a bit more forgiving at first. But I agree, this would only happen if the entire party dies. Otherwise it would be very unfair. Also the alternate plane of death would be adjustable according to the level of the players that enter it.
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:48 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by Ekim
quote:
Originally posted by Val
No, I think that should only happen when the entire party dies. Otherwise, it's plausible that the survivors would drag your dead carcass back to town and "respawn" you.
I think also for level one character the DM has to be a bit more forgiving at first. But I agree, this would only happen if the entire party dies. Otherwise it would be very unfair. Also the alternate plane of death would be adjustable according to the level of the players that enter it.
Ekim - I agree with the comment about L1 characters. A mage can have as few as 3 HPs at L1 - not much room for error there! But as the characters advance, the DM does not want to encourage rash behavior. Neither does he want the players to tread in mortal fear each moment. It is really up to the DM to evaluate what happened at the time death occured and tailor the penalty (if any) to the situation.
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:34 pm |
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