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Solude
Guest
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Can't seem to find the thread we were in about this so will restart it. How can someone create the most powerful char in Morrowind?
We had some thoughts going about putting most used skills as misc, of differing stats to be most effective. Put passive skills as minors so that you do get your 10 gains to make level but because the counters for stat bonuses include misc your 3 choices could be 5s some of the time.
Sounds good so far but there are a few catch 22s, one depending on your racial bonus some skill may start lower than you would like making the early game slower. That's one but no really biggy since the game expects you to be a wimp. The big catch is that there is a chance that your level gainer skills cap before your true main skills do forcing you to work on your major/minor skills just to level instead of playing the game to level.
Curious how my guy will turn out long term:
Redguard
The Lady
Combat
Willpower/Endurance
Major:Armourer, Alteration, Illusion, Mysticism, Restoration
Minor:Athletics-SPE, Block-AGI, Acrobatics-STR, Merchantile, Speechcraft
Misc:Long Blade-STR, Medium-END
The hope is that between passive athletics and acrobatics increases and active block increases I can level while combat spec increases the rate of misc increases since they are combat skills. Still tweaking a bit though, it would be nice to have 5 to STR/END/AGI per level but with a starting END of 85 might be better to bring athletics down for the SPE increase instead once END is capped. Oh well the game is young, plenty of time to pouch a char here and there 
Solude |
Thu May 09, 2002 10:56 pm |
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Kyz
Guest
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I'm at work, and don't have the manual nearby. Can you please run down for us, exactly how the leveling works?
All I really know is that you need to raise 10 skill points to go up a level, but I don't know how the attributes increases factor in.
Thanks |
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Thu May 09, 2002 11:53 pm |
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SuperCowMan24
Blademaster of the Moo
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 1194
Location: Texas, USA |
it works like this, all your skills have a cap of 100, but you can advance in EVERY skill... the pathetic thing about this is specializing is pointless because eventually you will just have maximum 100 in all skills. now if there were a mod that removed the cap.....
_________________
Moo. Just do it, purse your lips and let out a MIGHTY MOO!
Don't you feel better now? |
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Thu May 09, 2002 11:57 pm |
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Solude
Guest
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I'll try to make this so it makes sense.
You a level by gaining 10 advances in any major or minor skills (eg. 3 axe, 3 heavy, 4 block)
You get to assign 3 stat increases per level.
The modifier for the stats(eg. 3xSTR, 3xEND, 4xAGI for the example above)
So you would get 3 points of STR, 3 points of END, 4 points of AGI if that's where you put your 3 increases. The rest only net you 1.
So if you were 60STR, 60END, 60AGI, 60SPD you could go to 63STR, 63END, 64AGI but only 61SPD since no skill gains came from SPD skills in out example.
Ok now it gets a little less straight forward... gains in MISC skills do not apply to level, they do apply to the bonus though. Now in another example Axe and Heavy are misc skills, Block and Athletics were minors. Here your misc skills level fast through use, your minors also raise but slowly in comparison.
Now that you only have 2 level skills that represent SPE/AGI you should be able to get 5 SPE and AGI per level or close to that. If it turns out block raises slower than athletics, make it a major.
Meanwhile our 2 misc skills have risen by 5 or more too.
This time when you level you have the choice of increasing your STR/END/SPE/AGI all by 5 a piece (only 3 though).
So instead of the 63STR/63END/61SPE/64AGI possiblity you get:
65STR/65END/65SPE/65AGI, again only 3.
You can see how this could get your stats capped fast. There is a problem though. Once your useful minor/major skills are capped, how do you level?
If you only have the 2 useful ones like in the example and they start as minors, they should be about 15-25 depending on bonuses. That means you effectively cap at level 16-20. You will have capped all of your true skills and stats with some to spare but you are still low level.
So the question becomes is it better to be low level (20 or so) with capped skills and stats or higher level (40 or so) with the same skill caps and stat caps? Don't know which the game prefers so can't say. In EQ level was God, in UO it was stats. This seems to be a mix since your skills govern your ability, but level determines your health.
My guess would that being a pure fighter until your fighting stats are capped then switching to mage skills is best. That way you can keep your uber HP per level and keep the levels coming later.
Anyway to sum up, to min/max make sure you are only working 2 stats at a time in your minor/major skills. Oh and bring a coffee when you create your template, its not fun.
Solude |
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Fri May 10, 2002 3:49 pm |
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yeesh
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Unofficially representing Queens |
quote:
Originally posted by Solude
You a level by gaining 10 advances in any major or minor skills (eg. 3 axe, 3 heavy, 4 block)
You get to assign 3 stat increases per level.
The modifier for the stats(eg. 3xSTR, 3xEND, 4xAGI for the example above)
So you would get 3 points of STR, 3 points of END, 4 points of AGI if that's where you put your 3 increases. The rest only net you 1.
Excellent post, but you're misrepresenting the multiplier a bit. In your example, 3 axe + 3 heavy + 4 block, you would end up with only 2X multiplier in all 3 stats. Here is the table stolen fom another post:
X Mult.
-----------
1-4 2x
5-7 3x
8-9 4x
10 5x
To get a 3X, you need at least 5 skill points in an attribute. To get the sweet 5X, you need 10. Since you can have 3 multipliers, to max you need a whopping 30 skill points. With 10 points in any minor or major skill netting you a level, you can see taht you'll need the other 20 to come from misc skills. This is why misc skills are the key to min/maxing. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:11 pm |
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Solude
Guest
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Yeesh... if that's the case put ALL your heavy usage skills as majors!
Doing the misc thing will cripple your char something fierce. You'd essentially have a char that got no less than 30 skill points in used skills for every 10 in minor/major. Skills would cap out by level 10 leaving you with a pretty weak char. I wouldn't want a level 10 char in the end game when I could have a level 40 char with the same skills and stats but far better HP. Getting to the cap by 10 sounds great but keep in mind that this level 10 will come much later than someone who leveled using their minor/major skills. You'll be level 10 after 400 skill gains instead of just 100. That's a pretty steep penalty. Especially when you consider those 400 are at a slow rate compared to a major speced skill.
Looks like Bethesda dinged balance pretty good after all. A very pure character can get some nice stat bonuses while one that's all over the place won't. Oh well back to the drawing board.
Solude |
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Fri May 10, 2002 7:48 pm |
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Kyzug
Guest
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I'm only at level 5, but I've been getting 5x Int, 5x Wisdom, and 5x to speed each level.
Each level, I:
-raise Alchemy 10 points for INT.
-raise Destruction/Restoration a combined 10 points for WIS.
-then I just leave a roll of dimes on my run key, and run against the wall during my breaks / overnight -- to raise athletics 10 per level for speed
Resting (once) in a bed will let you raise your level with all three attributes getting 5x.
The problem is, if you then rest somewhere legally again, the game will force you gain another level instantly (because you just raise 30+ points worth of skills.) This time around, you won't get the nice 5x multipliers.
The trick is to only rest (illegally) between levels, and hope the guards don't find you. If you aren't 'meditating on what you have learned' in a comfortable bed, the game won't force you to raise your level.
As I said, I'm only level 5 now, but I've got my INT and WIS up to 80 so far, and I've nearly maxed out alchemy skill.
The biggest flaw my my mage right now, is that my endurance and health started low, and I'm not sure of how I can raise my endurance. I think only Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, and Spear raise endurance -- I don't use any of those. |
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Fri May 10, 2002 9:54 pm |
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Kyzug
Guest
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I had things a little bit wrong...
I decided my low health was going to be a problem later in the game, so I rerolled.
I kept INT and WIL as my primary attributes, but I intended to start raising END 5 points a level, starting from the first level.
Only 3 skills are based on endurance: Med/Heavy Armor, and Spear.
As my character was a mage, and shied away from the Armor skills, I took spear.
With the 60k soul gem available in the Balmora mage academy, along with the money available using alchemy skill, I thought I would just be able to make a lot of money at first level, and pay to train spear (someone in the basement of the Balmora fighters guild will train spear.)
So I did this, built a new character, and got about 20,000 worth of gold at first level. I then went to the trainer and tried to train spear, only to get the error:
"You can not train a skill to a level greater than its primary attribute."
My starting END was 30. All major skills start at 30 (+/- racial bonuses). Therefore I was kind of stuck. I used alchemy to make an endurance potion and see if that would allow me to overide the game limit. It kind of worked. My END jumped from 30 to 56. The game allowed me to train spear once. But then immediately my END went back down to 30 again. Essentially, I would have to drink an END potion before each training session. I didn't have anymore potions, and couldn't remember where I got the components to make it. I spent about 30 minutes searching for components to make more, but could find the right ones.
So, I re-rolled again. This time, I picked one skill for each attribute and made it into a minor skill. Spear for END. Unarmored for SPEED. Acrobatics for STR. Illusion for PERS. Sneak for AGIL. The minor skills all start at a skill level of 15. (My other skill were all magic based using INT and WIS.)
So here is the plan:
In addition to raising WIS and INT 5 points per level, I will:
level 1-2: Raise spear from 15 - 25, raise end from 30 - 35.
level 2-3: Raise spear from 25 - 35, raise end from 35 - 40.
level 3-4: Raise spear from 35 - 45*, raise end from 40 - 45.
level 4-5: Raise spear from 45 - 55*, raise end from 45 - 50.
level 5-6: Raise spear from 55 - 65*, raise end from 50 - 55.
level 6-7: Raise spear from 65 - 75*, raise end from 55 - 60.
level 7-8: Raise spear from 75 - 85*, raise end from 60 - 65.
level 8-9: Raise spear from 85 - 95*, raise end from 65 - 70.
level 9-10: Raise spear from 95 - 100*, raise end from 70 - 72
* training these skills will require drinking an endurance potion for each training session.
If I have this figured out right, I'll have 72 end by level 10, which should be enough for a mage. If I'd wanted to hit 100, I would have had to given up one of the magic schools as a major skill, and taken Med or Heavy Armor instead.
INT and WIS will max at 100 by level eight.
After this, I could focus on raising training other skills and raising attributes in other areas.
All of this assumes I'll continue to make money so easily through alchemy, so that I can afford all of that training.
Anyone see a problem with this plan? |
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Sun May 12, 2002 1:22 am |
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Sulvar
Guest
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One problem with counting on money + trainers to raise your skills is that at high levels of skills it if very hard to find trainers that can actually teach you anything. I know that for sneak and several other thief type skills that after 50-60 skill or so the trainers simply dont know enough to teach me anymore. |
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Sun May 12, 2002 8:50 am |
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Kyzug
Guest
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Yep. I just found that out the hard way.
It seems all the trainers 'don't know enough to teach anymore' once your skill gets to the 45-55 range.
I even 'persuaded' them to 100, to see if that would help. It doesn't.
It looks like skills are only raised through use after 50 or so.
I'm not complaining about it. I'm glad they at least put some checks into the system. The economy is completely broken -- if you have alchemy, you have an infinite supply of money.
Ok. I'm done 'trying to get the best stats' -- I'm off to really start working on the main quest! |
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Sun May 12, 2002 5:58 pm |
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Shumal
Guest
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What am I doing wrong? Can only misc skills you learn while doing count towards your level up?
Once I reach 10/10 for the level I tried to train 10 alchemy points to give myself the int bonus but I end up with a x1 multiplier. Can I only train before reaching my level? How does that work?
DB |
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Sun May 12, 2002 8:14 pm |
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Guest
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I believe it only works for major and minor skills. Training misc skills will help you increase in level, but they don't count towards your attribute multiplier. |
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Mon May 13, 2002 5:37 am |
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yeesh
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Unofficially representing Queens |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
I believe it only works for major and minor skills. Training misc skills will help you increase in level, but they don't count towards your attribute multiplier.
Absolutely right. Remember that while training a misc skill does not contribute to your multiplier for that attribute, raising a misc skill through actual use does. This is why I advocate making your most commonly used (armor/weapon/restoration/alchemy/etc) misc; this way, you stand a chance of advancing them. Then you can train your majors/minors at your leisure and rack up more multipliers. Conversely, making your least-used skills misc just guarantees you'll never raise them except via training, meaning you'll never get the multipliers for them. |
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Mon May 13, 2002 1:49 pm |
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Guest
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How does one rest illegaly in town to level only once as Kyzug indicated? The game does not allow resting in town but only let's the player wait for a certain amount of time. Pls help |
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Mon May 13, 2002 10:14 pm |
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Wabbit
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Solude
Yeesh... if that's the case put ALL your heavy usage skills as majors!
Doing the misc thing will cripple your char something fierce. You'd essentially have a char that got no less than 30 skill points in used skills for every 10 in minor/major. Skills would cap out by level 10 leaving you with a pretty weak char.
Solude
You might want to check your math on that 
28 skills x 100 max = 2800 skill points available. You subtract out points you start with: 30x5 for majors, 15X5 for minors = 225. subtract out bonus for specialization - example magic specialization, 9 skills, +5 per skill = 45. subtract out starting out racial bonuses to skills - 45 points for any race.
2800 total skill points achievable
less starting skill points:
(150) major skills
( 75) minor skills
(45) specialization
(45) racial bonus
= 2485 skill points available for improvement. Divide that by 30 skill points per level you skill get 82 levels of improvement, actually I think you run out of majors and minors first.
note I just did this off the top of my head, I could be off in some aspect, I know I worked it out more carefully a week ago on a napkin in Astro's Family Restaurant |
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Tue May 14, 2002 8:28 am |
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