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irritantnumber6
Village Leader
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 93
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Tomb Raider and Mafia are not CRPGs!! |
Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:32 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
@Gerad: No. The accurate term for RPG is a game where you really play the role, by changing it and developing it. In every game, you assume some "role" and play it, that does not make it a CRPG. The point of RPGs, from the start, is developing and really bringing life to your character. The term was created to describe that, so that's what it means, nothing else. The term will definately stay because it's right and justified, semantic bickering is just plain boring..
Ofcourse, we could also start a topic on the semantic, original meaning of the word 'game' and argue if it is suitable for describing a 'computer-enabled, interaction-based method of creating virtual stories'. RPG and CRPG have some good definitions, we have some good threads about what really defines a hardcore RPG from the rest, maybe you should read them.
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"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
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Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:40 am |
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iloveplywood
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 27
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Weird how I was just thinking about this the other day. I just completed Divine Divinity and it really struck me that there is such a fine line in game genres. Really, stat building is the most crucial aspect in what gets labeled "crpgs". Quests are great but they really aren't that much different from objectives in games from other genres. Of course, how much the improved stats actually matter to the game is important. The more the stat building is linked to progress in the game, the more likely it will be labeled a 'crpg'. Or at least that's how it shoud be 
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I'm never right, so if you disagree with me you're probably on the right track. |
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Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:51 am |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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Semantic bickering indeed!!! Whos bickering this fact...
I find that whole issue interesting myself.
Yes we all have a meaning for RPGs RPGs in gamer's terms is exactly what you desribed and yes mafia and tomb radier are not rpgs.
However my whole point is literally speaking Role Playing Game taken in loose fashion in the most literal sense a game like Mario is a role playing game. Your role whould be mario you play as mario!!!! Mario's role is to kill mushrooms and whatever you do that.
doesn`t get any simpler than that.
It's interesting how words start to aquire different meaning, some of you are closed minded , whats the big deal all I`m saying is that in a literal sense I would say almost all game would be rpgs.
I would though keep the term RPG but my point is 100% true somebody tell me in a why in a literal sense mario is not an RPG? RPG meaning just role playing game not the meaning we gamers assign to it.
sigh I`m going to have break out the dictonary next... |
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Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:34 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Just found another thing to add to my Never-ending List of Things That Must Go. 
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:51 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by mDrop
@Gerad: No. The accurate term for RPG is a game where you really play the role, by changing it and developing it.
I disagree - I believe that view of what constitutes an RPG is far too limiting. I don't believe one needs dto change or develop a character to make it an RPG or even a CRPG.
If we step away from CRPGs for a moment and look at just role playing in general terms, one might look to other forums (corporate training for instance) where role play is used extensively. Seldom in these forums does one change the character one role plays. The base point to role play is to assume the identity and characteristics of another "individual" and play as that "individual" would or could in given circumstances - that is the essence of role play. There is no need to "advance" that character's characteristics, stats, etc.
Just because the computer age has utilized the simplistic "getting stronger" or "getting better at skills" method of making a game progress and make us feel as if we are role playing doesn't mean it is the only way or even the best way. In truth, the BEST method is solid story development, solid npc interactions and true multiple paths and avenues of conflict resolution so that one can truly feel the different roles one might play in the game. Most games fail miserably at this.
A good RPG or CRPG makes accepting the role of thief or mage or scholar or swordsman "feel" different - that is again the essence of role play. Few games do this. However, a game (such as Thief) that truly makes you "feel" the single role presented is still very much a role playing game.
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:39 pm |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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I suppose a person like socrates would be a troll then???
because he questioned other people's ideas and notions.
I`m merely making a point here I`m not out to make anyone angry or insult anybody, it seems like nobody gets it
The idea of what an RPG is so ingrained!
I`m done here only way people will see my point is with the barrel of rifle!!!!
It's kinda of like making a christian a non christan I see nearly impossible
Be open minded!!!
that it for me now this is pointless. |
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Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:16 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
@Joey Nipps, you're right in a way. I come from pnp games, so my views on RPGs are very much different from those who play only CRPGs.
Developing the character is one of the basic concepts in almost every single RPG. I think what matters is the fact that you can make the character what ever you want. You don't have just one or two predefined characters to choose from, but you can actually shape your protagonist.
NPC interaction, story developement and non-linearity are good prequisites for a CRPG, too. Here's the recent thread about this very subject:
http://www.rpgdot.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12002
@Gerad, sorry if we seemed to come on you too strong. Read the thread I mentioned, we have a good discussion about nature of CRPGs and what defines them from other games. I just feel that questioning the term itself is not meaningful, since it is a term and means what it means. Semantics rarely get you anywhere. And Socrates was a troll Although I wise on at that 
_________________
"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw
- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O - |
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Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:19 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
@Gerad and mDrop - Unfortunately it is all about semantics - what else is there?
There is NO firm definition of what constitutes an RPG or more specifically a CRPG - it is really that simple and so it is all about semantic differences. Since the definition of CRPG is functionally for the relatively small population of gamers involved in various aspects of CRPGdom, it is all about what they can collectively agree upon. In fact, the very definition of CRPG evolves and changes based upon the collective concepts coming out of that diverse group of people.
Therefore continuing discourse about the topic not only will exist but must or the genre will wither and die.
Try to come up with a firm definition of game! It is not so simple as one might expect!!
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When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:49 pm |
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