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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@The mini-game haters: Why is it a bad decision to include this? Have you ever watched Star Wars? Han and Luke weren't exactly given a choice either. 
In fact, it's only logical that they'd send ships after you to stop you from getting away. Heck, they already destroyed a planet to stop you. You've been told that there was a blockade surrounding Taris to prevent anyone from escaping. I was anticipating a dogfight.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:11 pm |
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iplaygames2
Master of The Realms
Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 745
Location: Chicago, IL, USA |
@ Silken, you're quite welcome. I didn't have much trouble with that part, because I have played other games that used a similar radar type interface. Glad you found my tips on that part helpful!
As Ican said, this is *THE* place to come to look for help in an RPG (Or, in this case, a shooter portion of an RPG!). 
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Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:17 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
There are several reasons it's a BAD decision Val!! I bought an RPG, NOT a shooter. Having to wade through all those cut scenes over and over again is terrible design. It's a game stopper/ender for people who HATE that sort of game. If I wanted to shoot space ships, I'd buy a space shooter. I remember buy Privateer many years ago. I didn't last long, only to the first space battle, could never get past that and threw the game out. I have no problem with optional mini-games, but I do with game stopping compulsory ones that are not endemic to the genre.
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Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:49 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Who cares if it's not endemic to the genre? I found it a natural progression of the game. It added to the realism. I suppose they could have put in a little cut-scene showing you fighting off the ships, but where's the fun in that? If I'm playing a game, I want to be in the game. Not watching it. This allowed me to relive a little piece of Stars Wars and I rather liked it.
I will concede that they should have let you skip all of the cinematics and cut-scenes to get to the fight, but I'd just consider those a break to go get a drink. I only had to play through that sequence twice before I got the hang of it.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:54 am |
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SilkenKidden
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 297
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Corwin, I agree with you 100% on this. (Sorry, Val:) I bought an RPG. I don't mind a tough fight. That's part of an RPG. But there should be alternate ways to win it, such as using stimms or grenades as is true all through KOTOR.
There was a tough arcade sequence in one recent RPG (Arx?) , but I think that was inadvertent: bad programming, not bad design. Mandatory arcade sequences in RPGs are show stoppers. I consider them grounds for getting my money back.
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
There are several reasons it's a BAD decision Val!! I bought an RPG, NOT a shooter. Having to wade through all those cut scenes over and over again is terrible design. It's a game stopper/ender for people who HATE that sort of game. If I wanted to shoot space ships, I'd buy a space shooter. I remember buy Privateer many years ago. I didn't last long, only to the first space battle, could never get past that and threw the game out. I have no problem with optional mini-games, but I do with game stopping compulsory ones that are not endemic to the genre.
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SilkenKidden |
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:37 am |
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cwey
Village Leader
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 95
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Yeah I agree with Corwin on this too. Its a terrible design decision to put such a game stopping element in this game. Especially as some of the RPG players are those who hates action/arcade games (hence why they adore rpgs). I mean, they could have an option in this case for you, one would be for you to fight the ships yourself, the other, lets say, will be to let that robot auto target and fire at the ships so you don't have to fight the ships yourself. |
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:01 am |
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iplaygames2
Master of The Realms
Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 745
Location: Chicago, IL, USA |
Well, I'm going to agree with Val on this. I think the mini-game adds a degree of realism without sacrificing the storyline. I don't think that shooting down the ships is too difficult, once you get the hang of it, and I think it adds to the overall atmosphere at that point in the game.
I wouldn't call this a 'game-stopping' element, by any means. I think anyone who reads the tips posted online on how to beat the mini game will be able to overcome it relatively easily.
I guess we here at RPGdot will just agree to disagree.. 
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:35 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
I think that part would have been neat if only it didnt force the reloads of thecinematics.
It tested and failed my patience a few times. I stopped playing the first time it happened. Came back to it a few days later and gave up again after one go. I actually looked into removing the bink files that are the movie.
I think how annoying it is might also depend on hd speed because mine is a 4500 rpm laptop one. It took a long time to try again. an arcade game doesnt have 1 minute of action then 3 minutes of waiting repeat repeat...
On the other hand, if it was just a normal little shooter gameand you restarted there when you failed I wouldnt have minded it. |
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:04 am |
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cwey
Village Leader
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 95
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Yeah I agree with you on that point Stamar. The cinematics are a real killer. And what makes it worse for me is that I always get stuck int the loading Dantooine part when the Ebon Hawk is landing. I almost give up till I decided to turn off my grass option. After which Dantooine load fine. But even before that, I had to reload again and again in the shooting game part. So in all, I must have watch those cinematics like 10 times or so at least. |
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Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:00 am |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
Please tell me you people are joking. That little shoot'em-up was so easy my niece could have won it and she's 3 years old! :p
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Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:12 am |
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iplaygames2
Master of The Realms
Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 745
Location: Chicago, IL, USA |
I agree with you Lawanda, but some people really have trouble with those type of 'point, click, shoot, destroy' portions of the game.
My main concern, or complaint, is like most of you. I think you should be able to skip ANY of the cinematics in the game. Why should you be forced to watch something if it's your 2nd time through the game? How about your 5th? 10th? etc.
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Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I'm not fond of the minigames. An optional excercise for those that enjoy them by all means but I don't think RPGs should have choke-points based on shooter skills - even though I didn't find them very hard personally.
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Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:39 am |
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SilkenKidden
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 297
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quote:
Originally posted by Secret Agent Lawanda
Please tell me you people are joking. That little shoot'em-up was so easy my niece could have won it and she's 3 years old! :p
Would you tell a blind man that your three year old niece can see?
Actually (and thanks to TPTB), I have no diagnosed disabilities, but I am and always have been physically uncoordinated. I don't worry about the condition and I don't think it makes me in any way inferior to more agile people. But that is the reason I don't buy arcade games. And that is the reason I object to having arcade games forced on me in an RPG.
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Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:45 am |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
If the blind guy asked me, then yeah, I'd tell him that my neice sees just fine and so do I. Then I'd recommend he get himself a seeing-eye dog.
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Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:51 pm |
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SilkenKidden
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 297
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Never mind! I did it. I got to the deserted island.
But you can read the rant below if you want.  I still hate the mini game and the da*g game designers who put it in the middle of five agonizing minutes of cinematics.
I will never buy another RPG with an arcade sequence in it. Do you know that from the time you take off to the Star Forge until you get sucked into the mini game is at least 3 1/2 minutes and that's provided you hit esc twice to bypass the first two screens.
I am just so sick of hearing Bastila say "I'll never turn to the dark side" and then waiting for that stuipid cinimatic to end and the next one to begin and end and then watch the lead into the mini game - all of which takes another wo minutes. It is so unfortunate that the designers ruin a game like this. I liked the cinematics the first time around. Even the second. But the 5th?
I am just so sick of punching the space bar while I wear out my index finger on the arrow keys.
I'm just so sick of having my ship sink into the red with four figters still out there, at which point the situation is hopeless and I then having to wait another two minutes or so to die.
Ican? I did win this thing once, but I don't know how I did it. I can't seem to do it again. I hope this is the last mandatory one in the game. If so, will you help me again?
I'm now going to give it a few more tries, safe in the hope you will say yes.
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:54 am |
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