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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion - Reviews @ RPG Codex, La Maschera |
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RPG Codex has posted their <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=129" target="_blank">review</a> of Bethesda's Oblivion. The cynical outlook isn't a surprise but they have employed an interesting technique of including developer comments and essentially rebutting them in the following paragraph - sometimes to good effect. Here's an early quote:<blockquote><em><b>I think it’s fair to say that a game involving a demonic horde invasion qualifies as a dark game.
<br>Gavin Carter</b>
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<br>While that may be true in theory, Oblivion is not such a game. First, there is no demonic horde invasion going on there. The demons did open portals all over the place, but instead of invading, they are patiently waiting for you to show up and close all those portals in not very timely manner. Second, the rest of the world doesn't seem to care much and if they do, they hide it well. The problem with the demonic invasion, even as poorly organized as the one presented in Oblivion, is that it doesn't fit the "take your time to explore our world and join a faction or four" motto of the Elder Scrolls series. I mean, the game starts, the emperor dies, I'm told to find the heir NOW!, before it's too late, so joining the Thieves Guild instead and looking for something to steal didn't seem like a very immersive and logical option. All that dramatic main quest urgency seems to play against the strength of the series, breaking immersion and questioning the presence of the menacing, yet silly due to their uselessness, gates. Speaking about the gates... </em></blockquote>...and for our Italian readers <a href="http://www.lamascherariposta.it/recensioneoblivion.htm" target="_blank">La Maschera Riposta</a> has their review. |
Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:44 am |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
That was hilarious, and without the idiocy in so much of their other stuff. I like the style - and the substance. Oblivion is far from a perfect game, and I really enjoyed how they took apart the flaws one at a time.
It is nice to see these different-feeling reviews.
Mike
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:13 pm |
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fluffy bunny
Guest
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Hehe, this is going to be fun. They've hated the game since before it was announced, so I can pretty much guess what conclusion they'll reach.  |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:19 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:22 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
Did you read the whole thing? Did you go there with an even remotely open mind? Can you actually refute any of the stuff he says?
The last one is what surprised me - I read the whole thing, but went to the site with a load of assumptions and baggage, but actually agree with most everything he says. Yet I still love Oblivion ... which is one of the amazing things for me - how can a game that has so many problems be so good?
Mike
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:53 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
The feeling’s mutual. Their vile, wretched, brand of humor strikes me as somewhat chauvinistic and their boards are so choke full of bigotry, pampered by their elitist, narrow-minded viewpoints regarding cRPG design, that I find little incentive to navigate through such a landfill of hate and angst. |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:57 pm |
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Dajjer
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Los Angeles area |
quote:
Originally posted by txa1265
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
Did you read the whole thing? Did you go there with an even remotely open mind? Can you actually refute any of the stuff he says?
The last one is what surprised me - I read the whole thing, but went to the site with a load of assumptions and baggage, but actually agree with most everything he says. Yet I still love Oblivion ... which is one of the amazing things for me - how can a game that has so many problems be so good?
Mike
I read the review and while there were a lot of points I agreed with, his tone and word choice clearly showed his basic prejudice against the game, before he even opened the box.
Next to the Underdogs, RPG Codex has best library type listing of games. Great for looking up old games, not so great for getting an unbiased review of new a games. |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:14 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Dajjer
I read the review and while there were a lot of points I agreed with, his tone and word choice clearly showed his basic prejudice against the game, before he even opened the box.
Maybe I went there expecting it to be the typical 'go for inflammatory at the expense of facts or staying on point' stuff they do ... yeah, it was biased, but for some reason the style gave me a chuckle. And I normally can't stand their stuff.
_________________
Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:28 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
quote:
Originally posted by txa1265
Did you read the whole thing? Did you go there with an even remotely open mind? Can you actually refute any of the stuff he says?
Mike
Nope I havent read it yet. I will though - after I rearrange my sock drawer. Seriously I'll read his BS later tonight. Assumed BS that is.
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:05 pm |
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Seven from the Codex
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Dajjer
quote:
Originally posted by txa1265
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Does anyone actually take RPGCodex seriously? So consistently cynical and negative. If it wasnt RPGCodex I'd be able to take the negative review of Oblivion seriously. But coming from that site what a surprise
Did you read the whole thing? Did you go there with an even remotely open mind? Can you actually refute any of the stuff he says?
The last one is what surprised me - I read the whole thing, but went to the site with a load of assumptions and baggage, but actually agree with most everything he says. Yet I still love Oblivion ... which is one of the amazing things for me - how can a game that has so many problems be so good?
Mike
I read the review and while there were a lot of points I agreed with, his tone and word choice clearly showed his basic prejudice against the game, before he even opened the box.
And this is in contrast to other reviewers who were clearly biased in favor of the game before they opened the box. Their tones and word choices were even more excessively slanted, calling Oblivion nothing short of perfection - was it Gamespot who said that Beth was poised to dethrone Bioware as the RPG king despite having not played the game? It would appear that you're perfectly willing to excuse excesses towards Oblivion which are positive than accept a negative critique, or is it just that it's a Codex review so despite it's honesty and relevence you feel the need to detract from it? |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:31 pm |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
What they don't get: There was a lot wrong with Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind. There is a lot wrong with Oblivion - but the whole is more than the sum of the parts. And that's why each and every of those games is a classic, including Oblivion.
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:18 pm |
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Kalia
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Arizona |
quote:
First, there is no demonic horde invasion going on there. The demons did open portals all over the place, but instead of invading, they are patiently waiting for you to show up and close all those portals in not very timely manner. Second, the rest of the world doesn't seem to care much and if they do, they hide it well. The problem with the demonic invasion, even as poorly organized as the one presented in Oblivion, is that it doesn't fit the "take your time to explore our world and join a faction or four" motto of the Elder Scrolls series. I mean, the game starts, the emperor dies, I'm told to find the heir NOW!, before it's too late, so joining the Thieves Guild instead and looking for something to steal didn't seem like a very immersive and logical option. All that dramatic main quest urgency seems to play against the strength of the series, breaking immersion and questioning the presence of the menacing, yet silly due to their uselessness, gates. Speaking about the gates...
I even ran into a gate to Oblivion and decided to enter and see what lay within.
Gavin Carter
Our friend Gavin was surely jesting with us, because every gate is more or less the same. Each gate leads to a small linear area, filled with hot lava, red sky, some demons and ungodly towers, which you must enter, climb to the top through a series of always the same passages, and click on the stone to a) close the gate # 114 for good and b) take the stone with various random properties to enchant your weapon with it.
This sums it up for me nicely and, while I generally like Oblivion, I absolutely agree with this guy's article. Well written and with plenty of examples explaining his thoughts.
The sense of urgency that really fine RPGs have is tragically missing from Oblivion. I had a greater sense of 'save the world' in Diablo 2 than I have from Oblivion. The populace are hugely unconcerned with the fate of their world or finding a worthy successor to their murdered king. The demons aren't really doing anything other than building these gorgeous gates all over the land and throwing a fireball or two at unwary passers by.
As was said at the very end of the article, if you can live with these things, then Oblivion is overall a fun *game*. It is an absorbing game and I've spent a lot of hours playing it. But it's not the end-all-be-all of RPGs as so many seem to think.
Well-written, thoroughly entertaining article. Kind of makes me wonder if I read the same one that all of you did? |
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Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:08 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Quite a funny review, and one with a lot of good points. For instance, it always annoyd me that Bethesda claimed Oblivions Radiant AI was revolutionary, when 5 year old Gothic actually managed to make a more "living world" than Oblivion.
Of course, Oblivion is still a great game in my opinion, and I am definetly one of those that keep asking myself "how come I am enjoying a game with so many obvious flaws". There is something about the game as a whole that makes it addictive. I think the writer of the article is actually on to something though, regarding why the game is still fun - it does so much "fairly well". It doesn't beat Gothic in terms of world atmosphere, Baldur's Gate in terms of RPG element, or Jedi Academy in terms of combat.. but overall it does quite well in many different areas. "Jack of all trades" is a good description in fact.
Still, I would never count Oblivion among the truly greats, like the good old Bioware games(or Gothic for that matter, I expect far more from Gothic 3 than Oblivion to be honest). |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:34 am |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
quote:
Originally posted by Seven from the Codex
...It would appear that you're perfectly willing to excuse excesses towards Oblivion which are positive than accept a negative critique, or is it just that it's a Codex review so despite it's honesty and relevence you feel the need to detract from it?
Not so. OK so I read the review. It does have some good (critical) points. Some of the things mentioned I really dislike about Oblivion.
Unfortunately the review language is typical Codex - over the top as usual. Really - the inflamatory stuff harms Codex credibility in my opinion. This sux. That sux. It all sux. Well... the persuasion game certainly sux - but enough with the sux stuff.
_________________
"For Innos!" |
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:51 am |
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