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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Why, oh WHY can I not play Morrowind?
I love the leveling system... I've loved it since I first saw something like it in Quest For Glory
I find the graphics adequete and sometimes immersive
There's nothing wrong with the balance between the races
It's just...
THEY'RE DEAD! THEY'RE ALL DEAD! The NPCs are among them most boring I've seen in any game. Even the main NPCs are so very, very, very, very, very DULL!
I don't give a rat's ass about any of them. None of their towns. None of their peoples. I slaughter everything not human and don't care that I do it. There's not even the feeling of 'I'm doing something cruel in a computer game... cool'. I just hit them with a dwarven axe and they die, and the guards come and then they die, and everyone dies and I don't care.
What am I missing? What makes this enjoyable for so many others?
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:09 pm |
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jmurdock
Old Fogey
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: the heart of acadiana they like to call it |
You know? You're right. I finished the game but could not get to where I cared about any of it. It's like nobody has a personality or something. It was a string of things to do to get to the end. I mean, even the story was pretty good if you could get past the boring NPCs. Maybe because of the written dialogue rather than spoken. Maybe because everyone greets you in the same way all the time. Maybe because near the end when you're personality is so high they all act like toadies.
_________________
Just watch out you don't stress yourself out.
REMEMBER... Many saves, many slots!!! |
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Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:17 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
If you figure it out, Xen, let me know. I really, really tried hard to play MW after I got the mod job, and it simply refused to grab me. I hatedhatedhated doing a quest and getting nothing for it. Little bit of gold, maybe a lousy magic item-- nothing that made my character different from before the quest was completed.
Sure, XP is a manufactured concept, but at least that system means your char shows tangible growth for completing a quest.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:15 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I've played plenty of good text games... most RPGs up to even five years ago had minimal voice acting. The random blurbs they spit out as you pass by are irritating but not badly done... just repetitive.
Repetitive text among NPCs is annoying, it is true... and it was in Daggerfall as well... but I ignored that and had fun with Daggerfall. Was it because I borrowed the maximum amount from the banks in each city state but one and then ducked the law and stayed in that one state? Was it because the dungeons were more interesting (and annoying)? Was it the character generation? I don't know...
Was it the fact I'd often just fireball the citizens of a town while hoving above them laughing maniacally? No, I've done that in MW as well....
I can't help feeling that Morrowind should be fantastic. I think that's the worst part... something is missing and I don't know what. There are plenty of dungeons filled with bad guys to storm, if desired... there are plenty of things to steal, if desired... there are plenty of factions to join if desired. All the components are there... yet somehow it falls flat.
I don't get it, and it's maddening....
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:27 am |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
I, on the other hand, continue to play Morrowind and love doing so! 
Xen, we all know Daggerfall was a great game, and everyone was expecting Morrowind to be like Daggerfall, only better. Maybe it's this that doesn't quite sit well with you? Is it that Morrowind just didn't live up to your expectations?
Me, I have no problem with the levelling system Morrowind uses - I don't bemoan the lack of any significant difference in my character after completing a certain quest, possibly because I obviously have a different attitude to the results of the quest: I tend to consider sucessfully completing a quest to be its own reward. I care much more about the fact that John Q Dark Elf has made it safely home, than about gaining shiny thing #345. I never think "Is that it? A single potion of Fortify Fatigue? What a waste of time!", I chuck the potion in my pack, wave to the happy citizen and continue merrily on my way, quest mentally crossed off my list.
Having played stat-based levelling systems for so long, I can think of nothing worse and more false than leading the happy citizen to his door, gaining XP, and levelling up. "Hurrah, the elf got home, you gain 3 strength!" Eh? The stat-based systems seem much more logical to me, although I'd like to see "levels" done away with entirely in favour of continuous character progression.
But this is all rather drifting off the point...
Xen, some recent research proved that people set much higher standards for humanity the closer something looks to being human - a talking cartoon fish is much easier to relate to than a bump-mapped CGI figure. When something is obviously non-human, the mind perceives human traits in everything it does, but if something looks almost-human, the mind concentrates on all the imperfections in skin, movement, lip-sync etc. and looks on it more as an animated corpse. Thinking objectively, might this be the case? Do you not like the NPCs because even considering the great strides they've made, they still have a great distance to go?
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Charlie Dobbie
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:20 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It's definitely not the graphics... yes they're hideous until you apply a few user mods to the game but crap graphics is nothing new.
Perhaps it's because the characters are so detailed that you expect them to have something interesting to say. My girlfriend is playing a wood elf because I told her the game is different for everyone... that someone may choose to rarely fight and someone may chose to do nothing but fight and they'll both end up the same level... and after two hours play she was staring perplexed at the screen. I asked her what had she observed and she said (this is her first computer RPG... she's played Final Fantasy console style) "Well, I'm walking around and it's kinda boring. I don't know what to do."
She also said the NPCs had nothing to say, really, but she enjoys reading every book she finds . I told her that the NPCs had nothing to say because they're just people hanging around and how would SHE like it if some stranger came up and started pumping her for information on the city, the rumors, what her background is...
I know Morrowind isn't really for beginners... it's not directed at all... you have to make your own fun and for someone used to lineal console games it's a shocker to say "Well, you've landed on Morrowind... what do you do?". I'm not a beginner, though, and I find myself thinking along her lines.
Perhaps Gothic's fake-life routine scripting spoiled me a little but I think I'd feel better if I saw a Smith smithing while I wandered around the shop, or a pawn shop owner reading a book, or the like. Perhaps not. I'm not adverse to key-word driven dialogue... I played all the Ultima's except 9, after all... but I think that maybe things would be better if all the options that lead to "I don't know, ask someone else" or the like weren't word-key options to select for that particular NPC.
But perhaps not. I can't say I was moved to tears by games like Torment, Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic... I can say that I wanted to see things work out for the NPCs in those games. Morrowind has never forged any such rapport with me.... I don't care if Sauron leaves his tower and consumes the souls of the Hobbits or whatever the plot of Morrowind is (I've never really chased the plot, though I tried once and got a little distance in.. perhaps a lot distance in). Let Bilbo bake and the orcs bring the last dawn of mortal men.
I guess my complaint is really that the NPCs in Morrowind are pretty much as dull as people are in life. I don't care about rewards for quests... I did all the quests I could find in Ultima 7 and rarely got a single gold piece for it. I did it because I was the Avatar, the embodiment of the Virtues, and it was my responsibility to track down a missing child or even bring a bag of flour to a man who was too feeble to fetch it himself.
But adding more NPCs to the world (I've got a mod that does) may make cities appear to be more decently populated ... but they're all still window dressing.
I don't know... I really just don't know what I'm expecting from the NPCs. It just seems right now they're best use to me is to raise my longblade or axe skill.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:19 pm |
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jmurdock
Old Fogey
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: the heart of acadiana they like to call it |
I don't even think it's the fake life thing of Gothic. After all you're hardly in the cities to witness it. At least for me. I'm not sure what it is that's missing. Never played Daggerfell so had no idea what to expect from Morrowind. I've played every quest I've received, regardless of reward. I played a Kajhit because I love cats. I mean racial differences shouldn't have anything to do with it. I've also played a Nord and a Breton to see if things were somehow different. They weren't. I can't replay it any more.
_________________
Just watch out you don't stress yourself out.
REMEMBER... Many saves, many slots!!! |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:55 pm |
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jmurdock
Old Fogey
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: the heart of acadiana they like to call it |
Spoiled rotten? Jaded? Nah...
You might be right though, it could be just chocolate vs strawberry (I hate strawberry)
It just seems wierd, don't you think? It's like either you love it or you hate it. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the game, I appreciate the work that went into it. I even appreciate the leveling system. It makes a lot more sense to me. There are aspects of the game I like especially when it comes to the spells and such.
Oh well, maybe try the next one. I liked it that much at least. 
_________________
Just watch out you don't stress yourself out.
REMEMBER... Many saves, many slots!!! |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:20 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by cfmdobbie
Having played stat-based levelling systems for so long, I can think of nothing worse and more false than leading the happy citizen to his door, gaining XP, and levelling up. "Hurrah, the elf got home, you gain 3 strength!" Eh? The stat-based systems seem much more logical to me, although I'd like to see "levels" done away with entirely in favour of continuous character progression.
I understand, and even agree to a certain extent. My gripe is that you can achieve the exact same character growth standing in a swamp killing mudcrabs as you can saving the world. That seems remarkably anti-heroic and begs the question "Why should I even bother with the quests?" Since I couldn't answer that question for myself, Morrowind quickly became a dust collector in spite of all the positive aspects.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:25 am |
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jmurdock
Old Fogey
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: the heart of acadiana they like to call it |
quote:
My gripe is that you can achieve the exact same character growth standing in a swamp killing mudcrabs as you can saving the world.
I think that's it for me. I kept getting a bug at one point that said bad memory pointer on a pile of stuff I was trying to get to sell. It would save the game, give me the error and exit to Windows all unexpectedly. It gave me this stupid pointer error three times in a row in a dungeon that kept spawning skeletons every time you reloaded. By the time it was over, I had gained a level and my long blade skill had increased by 5 points. Over a stupid bug.
_________________
Just watch out you don't stress yourself out.
REMEMBER... Many saves, many slots!!! |
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:02 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
Yeah, the ultimate question: Why some peoples liked Morrowind while somebody else think it's just crappy game?.
"Hey!, why you like apple instead of orange!?, i hate apple, i hate hate hate hate apple!!!, Arhhhhh... it's so annoying".
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:03 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Ah, but this is no simple like/dislike debate!
We have here a game that, by most measures, should be a classic and yet some of us just don't get it even as we acknowledge that "classic-ness". What could cause such feelings of dismay?
That, Sir Remus, is the question at hand. Deep thoughts, man, deep thoughts.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:11 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Hmm. I started again (21st time is the charm?) and I'm just sort of relaxing while playing it. NPCs I don't need to talk to don't get talked to... they're just there. With the increased NPC count mod I downloaded Vivec actually looks alive... and I think that may help a little. If I don't talk to the commoners without reason then I don't notice how bland they are... ignorance is bliss?
(I must say, the game looks MUCH better now than it did when released... those better body, head, monster textures I downloaded really add to the game.)
I think I could probably make it through the game this time. I might just take some time and walk around rather than fall into the 'go go go!' mentality of the nine months of MMORPG I've been subjected to lately.
It would be easy enough to wander to another game but I want to like this one. It deserves to be liked.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:24 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Ah, but this is no simple like/dislike debate!
We have here a game that, by most measures, should be a classic and yet some of us just don't get it even as we acknowledge that "classic-ness". What could cause such feelings of dismay?
That, Sir Remus, is the question at hand. Deep thoughts, man, deep thoughts.
You think TES3 is a classic? I thought it has quite serious flaws (people who like or dislike MW actually have pretty same criticism toward the game), although i still like game. Why i like it? dig out old threads two years ago (you also responded in one particular thread), or go the official forums and check out why people like the game. Or here in some threads especially "Gothic vs MW" or "MW is POS" threads, directly or indirectly already touched the issue. Or in Avault forums in a Morrowind thread (April), few posts show why people still playing the game. In short I would like pointing toward personal gaming profile/history on each reactions toward MW.
Last year, you would surprised that in a poll (in official forums), most people (veteran & new RPGs players) actually didn't put MW very high in their Top RPGs 10 poll!. Few put it on the very top; yet many put it around no. 5 or so!. Ultima series, Fallout, PS:T, Daggerfall, BG series are more often on the first place than MW. Yeah, the no. 5 or no. 3 still pretty good.
Meh, i would rather move along instead of doing psychoanalysis on why i like & dislike MW...or delve into the game mechanics...
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Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:54 pm |
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