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Jabberwocky
Noble Knight
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: New York, USA |
Wow. I'm impressed. I also have a 128 Radeon 9800 Pro with 512 Ram and I wouldn't dream of increasing view distances that far. I don't really know what kind of framerates I get in G2, but one thing is for sure, while other games run 60 + FPS, Gothic has always been sluggish on my system. I'm thinking it's not the graphics card, but maybe the processor? It just seems like the lags aren't frame-rate related, but are actual processing hang ups. I'm running a 1.6 ghz Pentium 4. I don't know, maybe someone who knows more about these things can confirm my suspicions?
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"D'oh! I knew I should've saved sooner!" |
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:20 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there Jabberwocky,
You are definately on the right track, it would seem that the game developers had to implement some kind of limiting/timing system to allow or to counteract the differences that can be found in many graphic/video cards/gpu's.
here is a copy from hwfanatics excellent explanation:-
If I tell you that limiters are actually timers, you shouldn't be all that surprised. The neccessity of a timer in a game is natural, and is a result of movement. Each time something changes, the canvas of the drawing component needs to be re-drawn to reflect that shange. It is much easier to trigger this several times in a second than to detect changes... Thus, one would use a timer.
Timer have a certain period. But it seems irrational to limit the refresh rate of the canvas. The video card should simply do it as fast as it possibly can. Thus the timer interval should be set to 0. This timer simulates an infinite loop, and is not really a timer...
But, not only graphics are controlled with a timer. Movement is as well, but for a different reason. To insure that certain moving object is going to conduct the same way on systems of different speeds, the "command of movement" (increase object's x coordinate by const) is put within a timer with a period other than 0.
The problem is born when the period of the video timer gets higher than the period of the movement one. This usually happens when the object comes into a more complex enviroment, and the graph. card needs more time (in miliseconds) to render it. This delay every frame simulates a period of the timer controlling the video; but the period of the movement timer is still the same. If this lasts for some time, the object will move faster than the graph. card can show it, and, from the viewer's perspective, it will flicker (or flinch if you like).
To prevent this, the two timers are usually merged. This resolves the flickering problem, but the permenance of movement speed is compromised by the same reason. In high-complex enviroments the object will move slower than it usually does!
There is no solution to this, but the problem can be reduced considerably by setting a greater period to the video timer. This will force the object to move "slower" at all times, if you understand what I mean. And, this is basically called "frame limiting".
I had the chance to see for myself that it really does the trick, and reduces flickering to absolute minimum. Offcourse, flickering can not be avoided if you have too slow machine to get the game going, in which case it will always flicker. So, youn see, frame limiting is done not because of hardware deficiency, but because of it's excess.
The optimal framerate for human vision is about 20-30 fps. Any lower than that, and it will be seen as flickering, and any higher, and it will get unnoticed. The choice of G2 developers to limit it at 23 fps (approx. 43 ms) seems very rational to me...
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Editor GothicDot
I could not ask for a better explanation.  |
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Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:44 am |
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Jabberwocky
Noble Knight
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: New York, USA |
Nor could I. Thanks for posting this. 
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"D'oh! I knew I should've saved sooner!" |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:03 am |
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Byblos
Village Leader
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 80
Location: USA, East |
also max FPS for human eye is 60 |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:46 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
@Byblos,
quote:
also max FPS for human eye is 60
Correct me if i'm wrong, but 60fps is the threshold limit for human eye perception of the tv/vdu/monitor (the refresh rate) and enabling any rate above 70/72 removes the flicker, but it is a different matter in regards to the perceptive *video* frame rate, within the game - - the frame rate of the video frames per second, as prefered and set by the game writers.  |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:50 am |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
60 fps ?  didnt know that nor i belive that |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:03 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
@Daedalus,
quote:
60 fps ? didnt know that nor i belive that
Yeah, what you do is look just above your vdu/monitor about 5 or 6 inches and if you see the flickering it can be removed by upping the refresh rate to just over 70 or 72, i have mine at 75, there's no real point in going over this setting.
It can greatly help to reduce strain on the eyes, less fatigue  |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:39 pm |
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Byblos
Village Leader
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 80
Location: USA, East |
ahh well if i was wrong just tell me so i dont say it to anybody else |
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Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:48 pm |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by Wulf
@Daedalus,
quote:
60 fps ? didnt know that nor i belive that
Yeah, what you do is look just above your vdu/monitor about 5 or 6 inches and if you see the flickering it can be removed by upping the refresh rate to just over 70 or 72, i have mine at 75, there's no real point in going over this setting.
It can greatly help to reduce strain on the eyes, less fatigue
ow u mean the refresh rate yup yup i got mine on 85HZ , thought first u talking about something else like if u are outside watching clouds or something and when it is flickering then ur eyes are set on 60 HZ lmfao i know dumb thoughts |
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:55 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Yeah,
Did you also know that if you set the max refresh rate say 90hz on a monitor that can not reach that figure say only 80hz it can "blow-up" the monitor?
"Be careful"  |
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:44 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
@ Wulf:
That hwfanatics quote was very interesting. It explained a lot to me (I am just starting to study 3D Graphics & C++). Thanks!
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:19 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Hey there Chekote,
Glad to help, i too was gob-smacked not only to the detail but to the setting out, the progressiveness of the sentences, kind of took you through step by step.
That 3D graphics stuff is an interesting subject and will be with us way into the future. What comes after C++ ? - - C+++ ? |
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:34 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
If M$ has its way its gonna be C#
But I presume thats just C++ crammed with a bunch of .NET and M$ prioprietry classes etc...
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:50 am |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
ehe C++ is a good thing learn it and u gonna make miracles later in pc world |
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:56 pm |
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Patriot
Small Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1421
Location: Athens,Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by Daedalus
ehe C++ is a good thing learn it and u gonna make miracles later in pc world
Yes I've worked with c++ for some times but it isn't easy to learn.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:43 am |
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