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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
What's OK for me, may for thee be blasphemy...
Sure, if you buy this line- don't post offensive cartoons on Al-Jazeera.
What is that to you, what Danish right wing paper published? Get offended, and read something else. Noone is going to think that Mohammed was a terrorist, some people would just have a laugh, some others won't find it funny.
Actually, all this was a great disappointemt- untill a week ago, I had a Palestinean flag hanging out of my window- I supported the opressed. Now, guess whose flag I've got there? Yes, that one- red with a white cross on it. |
Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:18 pm |
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cptmaxon
High Emperor
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Israel |
I just read that the pakistani Imam, offered a prise of 1 million $ to the killer of the cartoons artists, did anyone else see that?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48718
apparently some of the more controvrisals cartoons were fabricated by the danish Imam, although why would anyone do something like that is beyond me ,as it can only lead to more violence.
_________________
"We're still flying"
"it's not much"
"It's enough" |
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:42 pm |
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mudsling3
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Location: CA, usa |
Imagine you just got beaten by sadist two feet taller, 150 pounds bigger. As you struggling to get home, out of no where a little punk came out laughing and jeering. What would you do? |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:02 am |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
Remember Salmon Radshi, Theo Van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali- and other people whoa are even dead, or forced to hide- just because speaking their minds offended some bearded wild men with big knifes and small heads |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:32 pm |
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Lostnumber
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 52
Location: An ugly brown desk |
I think that there are a few concepts that need to be separated within this discussion so we can understand them better: Freedom of speech, responsibility, and reaction.
Freedom of speech is an idea that is central to democracy, and the advancement of mankind. By my understanding, it is intended to propagate ideas and concepts that if were enacted and incorporated into law would benefit all or nearly all those impacted by any such laws. Any double standards set on freedom of speech would be in of itself an infringement on that very right. The U.S.A.’s civil rights movement and women's suffrage movement depended on this. In the U.S.A.'s history many demographics have had "lawful" restrictions placed on their civil liberties. By mean of free speech as well as other forms of political activism oppressed demographics have expanded and enhanced their civil rights. The key point here is that these various groups were once looked upon as undeserving of their rights, by our laws and common views they were accepted as sub-classed citizens, no one cared what they said or felt, in essence they shouldn't be heard. Only through their right to speak out against their oppressors did they receive the respect and freedom they deserve. The ideas they professed and strongly believed in offended the majority. Eventually though their ideas punched thought and won them what they deserved. Although there are many groups still in existence which use freedom of speech to propagate their massages of hate, we need this right in place in order to determine the difference between those who deserve our ire and those who do not. It is up to those who are listening and watching to determine whether or not that which they are hearing and seeing is just or unjust.
Although both parties in a debate should bear the responsibilities and consequences of their remarks and actions, any rebuttal levied against a point should be in equal measure. An eye for an eye idea may seem extreme, but would only be extreme in the event of a physical attack. An offensive cartoon, although offensive, does not cause any physical harm. Think for a moment about what the cartoon under discussion was attempting to convey. It was an idea, and in my opinion an outcry against the wantonly violent tactics employed by Muslim extremists. I do not want to pick sides about who threw the first stone in this war, or who is right or wrong. I think that we can all agree that the roots of the underlying strife go far beyond any of our understandings. The Danish cartoonists were displaying their collective disapproval. Although offensive, why should this be wrong? If someone prints a cartoon, burn a flag, write a letter, or draw another cartoon that is equally offensive. At this point no matter which side one is on both entities achieved what they wanted, to get their point across and to have their voices heard, offensive or otherwise. No one dies, no one goes unheard, and most importantly no one is deprived of anything. Everyone should be responsible for his or her publicly proclaimed remarks and beliefs, if not then they have no right to be heard. At the same time those who listen have the responsibility to mediate their own responses, for a response is just another idea another remark. Remember, the Danish cartoon was just a response to the actions of another.
Reaction is in of itself an action, and most often an action is just a reaction to something else. Unbiased freedom of speech is intrinsic to progress, responsibility is everyone’s to share, and any action should be mitigated by that which the reaction is to. This cartoon was just another comment in a web of debate. It deserves nothing more than what it is. Although this cartoon was indeed offensive it was no more offensive than that which incited it; some may even argue that it is far less offensive. A cartoon is much easier to absorb and deal with than an IED. Without freedom of speech there can be no progress, no global forum, no debate, even the forum this post is made in would not exist, this discussion would not take place. Without responsibility no point would matter, for each debater would lack any credibility, nobody would be willing to listen. Without justifiable and legitimate reaction the world would be bare, every offensive idea would spark global warfare. Any controversial opinion would incite death and destruction. If you disagree with freedom of speech then ask yourself, why are you reading this, why are you participating in this discussion? Like it or not anything anyone writes here will invariably offend someone who eventually reads it. Should this topic be closed, should you be banned? No, lest we all be as guilty as those with whom we disagree. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:25 pm |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
Amen |
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Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:39 am |
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mudsling3
Village Dweller
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Location: CA, usa |
Well said! If only both sides could step in each other's shoes ...not just for one day...The Golden Rule, which I say Freedom of speech is built upon. Otherwise, Freedom of speech is just a banner. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:28 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I’ve been saying it my whole life and I’m glad I now have multiple examples to draw from: violence is and has always been the answer. Was yesterday, is today, and will be tomorrow. Violence gets things done. Nothing gets a point across like a bunch of corpses or a horse head in a bed. You can’t sissify the civilized world and expect real men not to use our weakness against us. “Don’t do it or we will kill you” works like magic. I bet the next cartoonist will think long and hard before drawing silly pictures of Muhammad. Never mind there are Mosques with Mohammad’s image in them, and Koran’s with his image on them, and Muslim literature with his image in them, as that whole ‘no image ever’ nonsense is just a sect thing. Oh yeah, Jesus is one of their prophets, why can he have his image made fun of, or drawn at all? The sect rule is no images of prophets. There is an s on the end of it. But this isn’t about images. It’s about high horses.
And what kind of sissy ass pansy riots wouldn’t have violence? That’s like having a party without liquor. Or a band without music. Or an rpg without TB combat. Its just stupid.
Freedom of speech and political expression are stupid too. Down with hope! Up with dope!
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:58 am |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
These fundamentalist muslims are the same group that desecrated and completely destroyed all those huge, centuries old Buddhist statues carved into the mountains in Afghanistan.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/12/afghan.buddha.02/
They expect everyone to 'respect' and 'understand' their religion, yet when someone publishes a couple of cartoons, they go nuts, riot and kill people. Not only that, they are unreasonable where free speech is concerned, and are incredibly intolerant of Christians and Jews.
I think Muslims worldwide have to understand that most reasonable people are getting sick and tired of this behavior; they need to reign in their own or face the consequences down the road. |
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Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:29 am |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
Unfortunately, Muslims are not the only ones all too willing to impose their silly superstitions on Homo sapiens.
What about right wing christians (these hypocrites are not worth capitalizing)?
Today South Dakota banned abortions.
I think it is time for Atheists to start rioting! For as you said, nothing can be accomplish without riots.
Makes me think of old good Zappa song- we are dumb all over,- "In this book here god said he made us just like him, so if we are dumb- the god is dumb, and maybe a little bit ugly on the side" |
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Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:20 am |
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abbaon
Head Merchant
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 64
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Yes. Why have you named yourself after a Nazi? |
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Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:14 am |
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horst wessel
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto |
Hell.
Actually, it is my girlfriend's father's (RIP) name.
I've been using it on the web firsly because I love the song Horst Wessel Leid, and secondly because it is never taken, and I don't have to be a John_Smith16155.
Also, I'm very interested in German history, and Third Reich aesthetics- well, Marinetti and all that.
But no connection to their ideology, or beliefs- I cernainly don't share Nazi's views.
But noone knows who Horst Wessel was- why did you have to come and draw attention.. |
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Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:50 pm |
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