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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
A minor item in itself but some of you might be interested in <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10525" target="_blank">this post</a> from Tim Cain over at RPG Codex:<blockquote><em>Today, the final nail was pounded into the coffin that holds Troika Games, LLC. Today could be considered the date of its closing, or you can pick from one of several dates:
<br>
<br>February 28, 2005 - Troika Games closes its doors
<br>September 30, 2005 - Troika Games files with the state for dissolution
<br>December 24, 2005 - Troika Games files its final tax return (the last step in dissolution)
<br>
<br>Pick your favorite date, kids. Thanks for your support, and good night.
<br>
<br>Tim.</em></blockquote>Best of luck, Tim! |
Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:19 am |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
Well, at least I'll have the games. Arcanum's combat may have sucked, but ToEE and Vampire still remain two of my favorite CRPGs. Troika was always for the fans rather then for the bottom line, and that's what hurt it.
Good luck Tim, hope somebody rehires you. We need you in the hobby. |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:22 am |
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Arundor
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 29
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So sad. Troika was such a great game developer.  |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:12 pm |
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NeverDark
Village Leader
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 91
Location: Virtual Reality aka Life |
Were they really that great? They consistently released buggy products, and then wouldn't fix them. ToEE was buggy as hell, and I remember nonstop whining going on for weeks if not months on the official forums, before someone from the development team would aknowledge or, god forbid, address those issues.
The review scores for their games suffered due to serios flaws in their development process (e.g. lack of adequate testing). Whether it's them or the publisher who is to blame for that, I don't know. |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:42 pm |
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Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
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Well more than 90% of the time it is the publisher who does Q&A, makes the decision to ship also if and when patches are to be released.
If that is correct then the answer to your question seems to be, yes they were great, in their scope, visions and applications.
Yet undone by the inablity to get contracts/funding that let them the developer make the decisions about Q&A, release dates and patches, which by the way only a select few developers are in that postion.
Only 2 come to mind Valve and Irrational, I know their are others but not many.
Activision their last publisher has been notrois for poor decisions about release dates, PR and patches. |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:01 pm |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
Neverdark: You bring up a good point. However, if you remember Ultima 9 (Not a troika game, but just follow me) all of its problems were found out to be the fault of EA's overbearing influence and demand for an Xmas release. Basically, they rushed it, and we all felt the effects of that.
That's what happened with Troika's games. An unproven designer being hassled by a publisher because they want them to develop a name in the industry before their contract expires...or the money runs out.
I don't blame Troika. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:44 am |
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Paul999999
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 302
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I'm glad they shut down now hear is why.
First of all i liked Fallout its a good game the setting and story and the very graphic and evil sicken theme of the game is just really awesome (i just hated the futureistic crap in the game if it was all modern weapons / armor woulda liked it alot more)
They do have some talent in the games i've played like Fallout 1 and 2 and Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines and Arcanum they always seem to get really nice voice actors (bloodlines was very good every voice fit every one really liked the character Jack)
But EVERY game they release is very buggy alot of problems and most of the time unplayable its like do they even test the game / polish it before they release it?
After Beating Vampire Masquerade Redemption (one of my favorite games) i really wanted another vampire game i was really mad when i heard troika was doing i i wanted the previous devs that did redemption to do it the game was alright but i was disapointed.
The game was some terrible performance problems even on my really high pc it would run terrible they didnt optimize it or something. The game was unbalanced the guns were useless feral claws was crap and hardly did any damage.
Basicly i just used the samurai sword the whole game anything else you will die lo
Not only the terrible performance and unbalanced gameplay but on the level where you kill the vampire hunter it would always crash to desktop now im wondering whats going threw there minds when they released this game surely if they play the copy sent it then they would have all the same problems? So stupid so i had to end up doing a cheat to get past that level that part.
Another thing that bothers me about them is how in there games they would use the developers names for npcs or in text and show off like idiots wich ruined alot of there games when creating a game you stick to the story and the world you're making you dont put in names or talk about yourself and ruin the game 
So yeah they had some talent but all there games were just so damn buggy and had alot of problems if they tested them and polished then they woulda been better. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:51 am |
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Zebulon
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 44
Location: dark hills |
Paul999...
so you prefer the high polished crap over the unpolished pearls ?
Zeb  |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:17 am |
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Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
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Paul999999 why do you keep saying THEY released/didnt test why is so hard for you to understand that is was the PUBLISHER that made all those decisions you just complained about in Bloodlines even the choice of the Developer.
Snap out of it man 
Many of us were on the orginal Dilapidation forums and helped with testing, which later was bought by (the Evil) Gamespy, but was were the testing and fixes for the bugs (including the game stopper bug, rescue proffessor) were done.
Even DanUpright (orginal Unoffical Patch author and continued to version 1.2), he came up with the orginal gamestopper fix before the Devs with us testing for him.
Devs and Pubs were on the board and Pubs even admited to being responsible for pushing release and testing of Bloodlines, that was after the move so you can even find it currently on Gamespys boards now.
Hell ya Nihilistic Rocks, but they got sucked into the console swag hell!
Activision wouldnt even pay for one patch in Redemption (if I recall) or the SDK, Nihilistic is/was so freaking cool they did it on their own <standing ovation>. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:10 pm |
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Arundor
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 29
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Whether the developer or the publisher is responsible for the bugs, I don't mind either way.
What's important to me is that Troika TRIED to make good RPG's. Most developers these days (with some exceptions) don't even try to make RPG's - they water them down into Action/RPG's or Adventure/RPG's. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:23 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
I liked Bloodlines and TOEE, but the bugs in these games needed to be fixed long before they where shipped. While the publisher is normaly the one the finger is pointed at for games released unfinished, I can't say for sure that that was the case for Bloodlines. Months before its release the programers said it was finished and that the only thing holding it back from stores was the release of Halflife 2, which had to be released before Bloodlines due to the contract to use the Halflife 2 engine for Bloodlines. When Bloodlines hit the stores it was buggy and the long wait started for the patch. I can't believe that the programers claimed that the game was finished and then months later release a buggy game. The game even now patched up is still a bug fest that doesn't seem to run smoothly on any computer.
I still like the game, but I'm not going to release the programers from blame. After, they claimed long before release that it was 'finished'.
LB |
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Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:35 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Do we really have to discuss this again ?! Maybe you should dig up one the old threads.
_________________
Webmaster GothicDot |
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Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:39 am |
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Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
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"I still like the game, but I'm not going to release the programers from blame"
You are free to blame whom ever you want, but if you were making a game which you had to send to a publisher to get tested to be approved to be released and that publisher told you everything was ok wouldnt you think everything was ok?
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetvampire/topic.asp?fid=9655&tid=1555064&p=1#17408921
Here is one example discussing the first potienal patch, with post from Leon (Dev) and Primogen (Pub) talking about Dilapidation, patch and activisons respoinblity.
Here are some quotes:
Primogen
" Perhaps someone will read this from Activision and inform us that it’s up to Troika to patch the game?"
Activision owns the rights to V:TM-B, and so we'd be the ones to release patches to the game, even though Troika might be the ones making those patches for us.
Unfortunately, Activision doesn't have any announcements about patches ready to make just yet. We don't like to keep you guessing, but we don't want to give you information that might be subject to change either.
What I can tell you now is that Activision is aware of the problems people are reporting on this messageboard and elsewhere, and there are solutions to some of those problems posted on Activision's Customer Support website.
Leon
Man, these youngsters today. Before Dilapidation got closed down, I was over there all the time trying to help people/get info on problems people were having. I can't speak for Activision, but Troika has been trying to be responsive to the community, as we always have tried to be.
Since these are new forums and no one seems to have made it clear, I will say it again, for the fiftieth time:
Activision decides when to release the game, whether there will be a patch, and what that patch will consist of. Vampire: Bloodlines is Activision's game, they own it and are legally entitled to crush us if we do anything without their approval. Ironically, it's fine for fans to put out unofficial patches, but we'd get our asses handed to us in court if we were to release anything that Activision hadn't approved.
leon
Appoligies to anyone whom is offended by talking about this. 
Btw Gamespy forums are flaking out (timing out) took forever to find this thread, so good luck finding more if anyone needs it this is 5 pages worth
Edit
If this link doesnt not work (ie cause I was logged in to my account) the name of the thread is, The Patch and is location in General discussion of Gamespys Vampire board. |
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Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:45 am |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
That's true, since I remember Troika saying that with ToEE, they couldn't release one of their patches that they had already FINISHED because Atari wouldn't let them. Apparently, they wanted it to seem, to the casual observer, that the game didn't need a patch.
I once wrote an article about this on www.rpgfan.com
http://www.rpgfan.com/editorials/2003/10-20.html
Look for the editorial (Keep scrolling down) titled "Are The White Shirts destroying the CRPG" |
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Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:04 pm |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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TOEE was an awesome game. Big complicated games will naturally have more bugs. Console'ish/Simplistic games like KOTOR will naturally have less (although in my case I found KOTOR to have more game affecting bugs than TOEE - and even FO2). It takes a big team with a lot of funding to release a big complicated game with few bugs, ala BG2, but a few will still creep in.
This is the age of the internet, patches are easily available/downloadable, I have no problem with a few bugs if it means we get more detailed complex games. |
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Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:06 pm |
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