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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
| RPGDot Feature: Avernum 4 Review |
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We take a look at Spiderweb's latest Avernum epic:<em><blockquote>If you are unfamiliar with the series, Avernum is an underground world of tunnels and caverns underneath an arrogant and nameless Empire on the surface. Over many years, the Empire has banished criminals and dissidents to this sub-world, to eke out a harsh existence in the sunless caverns. Over time, these exiles have built an entire culture with towns and settlements, fungi farms and mines - even trade with the surface. But it's a dangerous and unforgiving world full of monsters and battles with bandits and other races, such as hostile factions of the cat-like Nephilim, the lizard-like Slith and more.</em></blockquote>If you haven't played one of Spiderweb's games before, this is a great place to start. Read on for the entire review, <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1229">here</a>. |
Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:17 am |
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Elwro
Guest
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A nice read. Thanks, Dhruin! I will be at least grabbing the demo of this game, but only when I'm finally through Avernums 1-3  .
I think it's a good and informative review but frankly, you could've made your own screenshots. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:34 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Yes, fair point. I use FRAPS for 3D titles but I've always had trouble finding something reliable for 2D. I'll make a point of it for the future.
_________________
Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:23 am |
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dagoo77
Guest
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While I enjoy these spiderweb games and appreciate the effort involved, I simply can't play these anymore. Despite some minor graphical improvements, this is effectively the same game I played 10+ years ago with Avernum 1. I realize this is largely due to the nature of the market and expenses involved in new development, but I've been hoping for the next gen of these games for quite some time. For any old schoolers that haven't played before though it is certainly highly recommended. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:04 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Hmm, I never played one of the spiderweb games. Graphically the tilesets just fail to evoke any of the underground moodiness I would expect from the setting - that can't really be a technology problem, 10 year old games did that just fine. Together with the apprently linear plot and combat focus it doesn't sound like a game I would be interested in. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:45 pm |
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VD
Guest
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Try one. I recommend Geneforge. There is more to Spiderweb games than meets the eye, although it may be REALLY hard to believe. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:12 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Great review. You hit on all the points I thought while playing.
I would like to see a new engine not for graphical enhancements, just for an improved UI.
I like all and agree with all the pros and cons listed (I think a fault of the game is needing to have a mage/thief mix for lockpicking which is silly and wasn't covered), and I agree with the 7/10 score. But, compared to the higher scores that games with much more apparent flaws (besides graphics) get kind of unvalidates the scoring (to me at least). I understand that a lot of people with a lot of different tastes do reviews here, but it would be nice to see a fancy graphics title get a mediocre score after a mostly positive review.
Not to pick on Corwin, but lets take his U5 review. He was obviously a huge fan of the remake. After reading through the review if it didn't get a great score I would have have thought he was nuts. His blatant love of the remake caused how many people to get DS just to play it? Now, lets take his review of Bard's Tale. You would have expected to see a 6 or 7 at the end, with the final note being that the game overall is fun and accomplishes what it is supposed to accomplish but by no means was it a great game, but it got a higher score than the review would indicate it deserves.
If we used a logical scale for Corwin, you would figure his love of the U5 remake would be on the high end, his mediocre take on BT would be somewhere in the middle (between 4 and 6), and his hate of POR 2 ROMD would be around a 0 to 2 (I don't think he ever reviewed it but I remember what he said when you, or maybe it was Xen, asked him what he thought of it).
Its hard to explain, but do you see what I'm saying?
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:52 pm |
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niteshade2
Guest
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I don't really care about the graphics engine too much, I really don't play these kinds of games for the graphics. However I do often feel that lately Spiderweb is just making the same game over and over and again and hoping we won't notice because of the long delay between games. Now granted I suppose it's hard to have a bunch of stories in the same game world and make them feel unique (though I thought exile/avernum 1-3 did a fine job).
My only serious problem with the graphics is that it reuses way too much stuff from geneforge. I mean we are talking 2 completely seperate game worlds, is it too much to ask that they not have a lot of the same monsters? I could understand if it were basic things like goblins and orcs, but things like those guardian plant fungal turrets should really be unique to geneforge. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:36 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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quote:
Originally posted by VD
Try one. I recommend Geneforge. There is more to Spiderweb games than meets the eye, although it may be REALLY hard to believe.
Well, I always meant to try out one of the demos at least. But with many classics RPG's I still want to play or replay, and new games coming out, it would have to be pretty good to make me buy the game(s). |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:45 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Ok, I'm going to give it a try. Starting to download the demo... |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:18 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
I like all and agree with all the pros and cons listed (I think a fault of the game is needing to have a mage/thief mix for lockpicking which is silly and wasn't covered), and I agree with the 7/10 score.
My first ever review was a 5000-word behemoth that I'm sure noone read. I've been cutting it back to find the right length...this one is 1100 words - I think 1500 is probably about right. Anyway, I was trying to be more concise and couldn't get stuff like the lockpicking in. I also disliked the "hidden" special skills (I'd rather plan my character than accidentally unlock something) and wanted more info/feedback from the UI on some things...but they were fairly minor issues overall so I didn't cover them.
quote:
But, compared to the higher scores that games with much more apparent flaws (besides graphics) get kind of unvalidates the scoring (to me at least). I understand that a lot of people with a lot of different tastes do reviews here, but it would be nice to see a fancy graphics title get a mediocre score after a mostly positive review.
Yes, I understand - and even agree - with your point. Let me ramble a bit before getting to the point.
I actually found Avernum 4 hard to score. I really enjoyed it, so on a pure "how much did Dhruin like it?" scale, it would rate fairly high. On the other hand, it is pretty linear, the combat is good but not fantastic and other Spiderweb games are arguably better - Avernum 2 has a more dramatic story and Geneforge is a better roleplaying game, for example. Avernum 4 set out to be a dungeon-crawler with a good story, so you can't fault it too much for some of that, and it succeeds quite well at those intentions. Finally, I appreciated the bigger view, better resolution and seamless world - I just found it easier to play, rather than fighting annoyances with the UI (although the UI could still be improved).
(Oddly enough, I reckon Jeff probably worked quite hard adapting the new engine, so I suspect he might feel it's some of his best work.)
I debated 6-8 and finally settled on 7. 8 was too high because the design is fairly "safe" but 6 doesn't do the game justice.
My point: sometimes it's hard to get scores right and we are stuck with the historical reviews we have, for better or worse. Moriendor took steps before retiring to tighten our system, and I think we can use that to improve as we go forward.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:21 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by GhanBuriGhan
Well, I always meant to try out one of the demos at least. But with many classics RPG's I still want to play or replay, and new games coming out, it would have to be pretty good to make me buy the game(s).
Geneforge is definitely worth a look - it really does have some good roleplaying and different outcomes. You are quite right that some 10 year old titles look better but I "adjust" to the tiles after an hour's play and then I even start to find the charm in them. They are surprisingly varied and work better than the screenshots suggest (I think, anyway).
quote:
Originally posted by dagoo77
While I enjoy these spiderweb games and appreciate the effort involved, I simply can't play these anymore. Despite some minor graphical improvements, this is effectively the same game I played 10+ years ago with Avernum 1. I realize this is largely due to the nature of the market and expenses involved in new development, but I've been hoping for the next gen of these games for quite some time. For any old schoolers that haven't played before though it is certainly highly recommended.
Interesting comment. What makes an indie game "next gen" - what are you looking for? If Spiderweb made a whole new franchise but using similar tech, would that still be the same or is it only the graphics that count? This isn't a flame, by the way - just an interesting point to discuss.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:33 pm |
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niteshade2
Guest
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Geneforge is certainly worth checking out if you have never played it before. I may be critical of Vogal's recent work, but that's just because it just seems too similar to his past stuff. If you've never played his past stuff then that's not a problem. But if your like me and you've played Exile 1-3, Avernum 1-3, and Geneforge 1-3 then you might feel like you've already played Avernum 4 before. The problem is even more pronounced with the geneforge series.
If I had to choose one to recomend it would probably be geneforge as well. |
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Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:18 am |
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