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MadPriest
Head Merchant
Joined: 03 Apr 2002
Posts: 57
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| More & More RPG's having monsters level up same as playe |
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Not sure how to word it exactly, but it seems more RPG's are doing the whole increasing monster's "levels" as the player levels go up thing. For instance what Morrowind and Sacred do, and now it appears Dungeon Lords is going to do the same thing?
I would like to know the reasoning behind this. As I get better in a game I like to be able to easily dispatch and VIOLENTLY DESTROY the monsters that were once difficult to slay, yet a few rpg's for some reason have the enemies get stronger as well. Its not really a huge deal or anything but I'm not particular for it.
What would be some other examples of this and I would like to see what other people's opinions on this strange matter are haha |
Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:11 am |
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_gator
High Emperor
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 530
Location: Kentucky |
For me, I prefer the monsters to level as my characters level. It keeps the challenge level up, having to come up with new strategies to defeat monsters throughout the whole game. In a lot of linear RPGs, this is inherient in the game as it is planned on you being a certain level when you get to particular areas in a game. The monster are made to be a challenge when you get to that area.
If you make a non-linear game, you are allowed to roam freely throughout the world. In order to do that, you would need to be able to get past encounters in the different areas of the game. So without leveling the monsters with your party, you would either encounter areas that are impossible for your party or too easy. With auto-leveling of the monsters, you will be able to freely roam.
Another example is Wizardry 8. Towards the end of this game, I started to lose interest because the encounters started to become too easy for my party. But from the very beginning to almost the end of the game, the encounters were challenging, but not impossible. |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:45 am |
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NeverDark
Village Leader
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 91
Location: Virtual Reality aka Life |
MadPriest is saying the truth, and you, _gator, have a weird logic. What's the purpose of having the leveling system in the first place, if it bears no affect on the course of the gameplay? Wouldn't it be more fun if instead of stupid levels and experience points developers added more monsters and made them more challenging for the player, by making them harder to kill or by some other means? |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:59 am |
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_gator
High Emperor
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 530
Location: Kentucky |
quote:
Originally posted by NeverDark
What's the purpose of having the leveling system in the first place, if it bears no affect on the course of the gameplay?
Usually the purpose of leveling is to gain better skills, different spells, more abilities, etc. "Leveling" could also be accomplished with items that you could acquire thoughout the game. As you get better or different items (or skills, spells, abilities), you will be able to tackle encounters in different ways or just be able to kill better than you were before. Leveling almost adds the feeling that your characters are progressing, that you are molding them. There is some satisfaction to that plus it adds to replay value as you can develop characters in many different ways.
quote:
Originally posted by NeverDark
Wouldn't it be more fun if instead of stupid levels and experience points developers added more monsters and made them more challenging for the player, by making them harder to kill or by some other means?
So basically, take away the leveling of the characters, but level up the monsters (or as in the case of Wizardry 8, you encounter different monsters of the same type - Green Slime, Noxious Slime, Metallic Slime, etc.) as the game goes along to continually increase the challenge of the game? This would be fine by me as long as your characters were able to actually defeat the monsters all the way to the end of the game. I would not want to reach a point in a game where I could not proceed any further because I could not figure out a (or "the") way to get past a particular encounter. In a leveling system game, if you reach a fixed encounter (monsters are the same level regardless of the party level) that you cannot get past, you come back to the encounter after you have gained a few levels. Random encounters, if they are leveled to your party, should be challenging, but not impossible.
I like the entire game to be challenging. I loose interest in a game if the encounters become tedious (easy). As mentioned above, leveling makes you better at killing enemies. Hence I do want harder enemies to kill. If you did encounter an enemy that is now easy to beat that was once very difficult to beat, then I ask, where is the challenge?
Anyway, this is just the way that I like a game to be. Likes/dislikes will vary.... |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:31 am |
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Conan The Librarian
City Guard
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Merry Olde England |
Really its a question of individual preferences. However I would hate to play a game where you kill a weak goblin at first level, only to be killed by the same type of monster on a higher level.
I like my monsters varied and challenging, not stronger versions of the ones you encountered at the beginning of the game I don't call that very imagnative. For start they will probably have the same tactics generally except for skills, items or magic changes.
The other thing if you explored an area already and are just passing through to get to a new and exciting destination, you don't want to be bogged down in the same area eveytime, killing stronger versions of the monsters you originally have encountered there. It gets to repetive and boring eventually, imagine a town setting after returning from adventuring.
If a game allows free will in roaming anywhere then the monsters encountered should be based on the character level or skills. For example, at level one goblins and at level twenty dragons, so at least your monsters are different and challenging eveytime to a degree.
Again, it depends on how long combat takes, options of avoiding combat and how much combat orientated a game is. I personally prefer if monsters are weaker than your characters you can kill them or avoid them. That encounters in areas which have been explored should be less as you trashed the monsters in that area already.
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The optimist sees the doughnut.
But the pessimist sees the hole. |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:43 pm |
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Wysardry
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 12
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It makes perfect sense to me for enemies to gain levels over time if the player character does. What doesn't make sense is to expect enemies to stand around doing nothing whilst you are killing things elsewhere.
If you leave one or two low level enemies alive in a location, and then return 2 or 3 years (game time) later, wouldn't it make sense for them to have trained or practised at least a little during that time?
If they rounded up a few friends to help too, it would be even more believable. |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:27 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Uh, Morrowind did never have monsters that grew in power as your character advanced. The game is a testimony (along with all FF games and that piece of crap Chrono Trigger) to the folly of letting your character(s) fight droves and droves of enemies you've grown far beyond. Seriously, a level 30 anything in Morrowind could kill everything but Dagoth Ur himself.
I want fights to be challenging, not annoying distractions. Hopefully also gaining more exp and stuff. |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:30 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
As _gator and I are both Wiz8 addicts, I guess it should come as no surprise that my opinions are very similar to his. A level 20 char/party churning thru a pack of level 1 goblins is fun for about 5 minutes (since it highlights how far you've progressed from the time when goblins were dangerous), but then becomes annoying and boring.
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=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:10 pm |
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