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ballistic
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 44
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Reasons? Weak publisher. Xicat, right?! That's all. I found a copy of Gothic, almost by accident, in a tattered cardboard box in the back of a CompUsa store, for pete's sakes. As a game it was pretty much perfect. But, nowdays it doesn't matter - you have to have the financial and marketing muscle to buy the shelf space, wal-mart it, advertise in magazines, etc... it's like a freakin' mafia with the big guys like MS, Vivendi and EA calling the shots. So, it's like this: you can sell a lot of copies of remakes or standard shooter fare, or a few copies of fresh and original games. There are exceptions, of course.
Hope Gothic 2 fares better in the US (I got the UK version). Atari/Infogrames/Whatever are already in pretty bad reputation with releases (Moo3, ToEE). |
Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:03 am |
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Rainstorm
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 02 Dec 2001
Posts: 194
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I hate to say it, but I think Gothic one didn't sell and didn't get the exposure it "deserved" because it sucked.
Ok, I know, some loon out there with waaay too much coffee and time on his hands is gonna blast me, but lets look at a few big things here with Gothic one first.
Time on my hands...well,enough of it,does beer count instead of coffee...? (not going to blast you,but post my opinions just like you did...  )
quote:
Controls-What controls? The game had control options like Doom 1
I didn't have any problems with them...and G2 has basically the same controls...(apart from lacking the ins,del and those for trading which I miss...)
I do know many had trouble with getting the mouse to work though,for me it worked just fine...
quote:
Gameplay-This is where I have most of my problems. The whole "smoke some swampgrass" thing made me feel like I was playing a game designed by teenagers who still somehow thought smoking dope was a cool thing. Well, its not cool, its just juvenile.
I will say (and I dont mean this as a jab at anyone!) that if I was a swamp grass smoking teenager again, I would have probably loved this game. However, if things are anything now like they were when I was younger, if you had extra money, it sure wasn't spent on a game. It was spent in new ways of figuring out how to catch that "perfect buzz."
Well,smoking or not was up to you though...it was in a jail and I liked the hopeless atmosphere...the nicest atmosphere I've encountered since the two Fallouts...
I'd expect drugs to be used in hopeless settings myself,people will be bored and looking for a way to flee...drugs is one way...
quote:
Maybe that's why Gothic didn't sell better. Or maybe it was just because all the old farts like me, warned all the other old farts away from the game. Even at 9 bucks a shot for Gothic now, you'd get better entertainment by smoking the box.
Don't know how old you have to be to be a fart,but I'm 35 myself and liked it...
Reason it didn't sell well was what Ballistic wrote,Xicat,a very small publisher that couldn't afford much marketting...
I found out about the game in Rally trophy,it was in a leaflet with coming releases.(so it seems JoWood was going to release it,don't know why they didn't) |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:02 am |
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Hagen
Counselor of the King
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 350
Location: England |
"Gameplay-This is where I have most of my problems. The whole "smoke some swampgrass" thing made me feel like I was playing a game designed by teenagers who still somehow thought smoking dope was a cool thing. Well, its not cool, its just juvenile. "
Have you ever left your house? been around a large city/town? read the papers? then oud know what a massive thing drugs are, and drugs/dope isnt just taken by teens, its rediculous to even say that. Drugs have been around since the dawn of time, in every single culture drugs have been there, in some cases at the centre of it all, why not have them in Gothic? its a problem/issue every culture in the world has had to deal with at some point.
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"There are many questions which fools can ask that wise men cannot answer."
--George Polya (1887-1985) |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:05 pm |
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Scott
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Colorado |
quote:
Have you ever left your house?
Um, gee, no, why? Outside?
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been around a large city/town?
Umm, yes. I live in a capital city.
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read the papers?
Dont all "old farts" read the papers?
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then oud know what a massive thing drugs are, and drugs/dope isnt just taken by teens, its rediculous to even say that
I didn't say that, YOU did. I simply said that playing a game where swampgrass was made to be "cool" made me feel like I was playing a game by teenagers. Was it invented by teenagers? No. I just dont meet too many adults running around wearing shirts, or displaying little drawings of Grass on their Pee-Chee notebooks. When is the last time you saw or heard someone over age 30 say "A friend with weed is a friend indeed?"
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Drugs have been around since the dawn of time, in every single culture drugs have been there
Gee thanks. I think we've all pretty much understood this is part of history. We dont need someone to remind us that drugs, like piercings have been around since man.
quote:
its a problem/issue every culture in the world has had to deal with at some point.
And that's exactly why it shouldn't be included in agame that designed to not only be fun, but also be an escape from reality.
I'm simply listing things that I think helped to ruin a game that could have been good, like Gothic. I'm not the only "old fart" I've heard say the same thing about the game either. I bought it after being told not to by the 32 year old store clerk because of the rediculous "tubular dude" swamp grass references.
P.S. Thanks Rainstorm, for not blasting me and adding your own opinion to the mix. I liked your point about drugs adding a touch of hopelessness to things. Loved that same touch in Fallout 1&2 myself  Drugs were there, but never made to be a "cool" or in thing. In fact, they made them just the opposite.
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The arrows flew at us so thick as to blot out the sun, so I says to young Angus, "Well, at least now we'll be fighting in the shade." |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:22 pm |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
i quess the problem what you described is the fact, that drugs in gothic2 don't do actually anything, using them doesn't have any real consequences like getting hangover if drinking to much beer or stuff like that.Or Feeling signs of frustration if being without weed for example.Or how about if you smoked weed infront of the palading he would try to arrest you etc?I think this is the problem...
I remember when i drank too many botles of wine in dx. JC's vission actually changed and moving him became a bit difficult..What comes to aiming a gun.Well lets not just talk about  .Also Drugs did the same thing expect their effect was much more longlasting.Everytime i smoke a cigeret it took 1-2 hp's from jc's chest.I think such consequences would be nice touch to see in gothic3.Also if hero would be drunk in front of mage , he would treated diffetently than a mercanary would for instance.
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The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:37 pm |
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ballistic
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 44
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Well, I can see how some people could be affected by these things in a game. That's their private business. Not to mention violence, demons, magic, pretending to be a gnome barbarian in DnD games, and all that... A lot of these things have been called juvenile, as well. I have a friend who only played diplomatic characters in Fallout, for example. To avoid violence. But most games don't let you do that. Heck, playing video games - period, is mostly seen as juvenile. But how does it explain the poor marketing? I mean the game wasn't even marketed to those people. Or to anyone, really. The fact that it sold as much as it did by word of mouth alone means it was a pretty marketable product. |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:13 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Relax, guys. If Scott thinks Gothic sucks then it´s okay.
Please stay on topic.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:20 am |
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Arrowhead
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Location: Seattle, WA |
The thoughts and opinions of the Gothic series expressed above are indeed valid points in someones desision whether or not to buy the game. This is why there is an age/maturity rating. Understandably a parent might not want there child influenced by this or any other games content. On the other hand as an adult I prefer a Fantasy based game because of the thought it involks and the stimulation to my imagination. It does not affect my prespective in relating to the real world.
Gothic developers wrote a fantasy story of prisoners in a medieval setting. The controls chosen by the developers were a big part of the negitive aspects of buying the game and I admit the learning curve was high but so was learning how to drive a stick shift way back when. I had a blast driving just as I did playing after I got it down.
I found this game by chance and now in hindsight was wondering why there wasn't the coverage by the Publishers. If I remember G1 was only sold in EB stores (could be wrong, I do know that has been the case before).
The main point that I had in bring up this topic was to learn about the way this and/or any other game gets handled in the market. Just look at the coverage different games get at any game info site.
The conclusion is that the hard work of the Developers hand over the creation of there ideas to a publisher and has to put up with there opinion and whether or not to spend money on its promotion (whos got the most money gets the exposure) The fans of RPG and any other game type want to be informed of all games avalible so WE can choose. I feel game information the responsibility of game sites and magizines to report on.
I knew of G2 when it was released in Germany but had a hard time getting info to follow the US release. Even now there is coverage on the back pages of gamer web sites with very few places listing it in the "This months new release list"
I support this developer because I like there products and views in creating a RPG game. Only by understanding the difficulties they face in staying alive in this competitive market can I understand the whole picture of game development. I have learned much about the real world of "Game Marketing" and have hopes to learn even more by posting this topic.
Thanks to all for there ideas and comments.
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It's a Dragon you idiot.............RUN |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:49 pm |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
quote:
Originally posted by Arrowhead
I knew of G2 when it was released in Germany but had a hard time getting info to follow the US release. Even now there is coverage on the back pages of gamer web sites with very few places listing it in the "This months new release list"
I support this developer because I like there products and views in creating a RPG game. Only by understanding the difficulties they face in staying alive in this competitive market can I understand the whole picture of game development. I have learned much about the real world of "Game Marketing" and have hopes to learn even more by posting this topic.
Thanks to all for there ideas and comments.
Well i bumped into gothic by accident as someone praised it in some messageboard.I downloaded a demo.After playing the demo for smething like ½ half hour i was fallen in love with it.It was something groundbreaking, orginal.The way world felt..how the characters lived their life in it.How fighting was more than just point and click.Setting felt truly interesting.But time went on and on.It took whole 4 months to get my hands on full game..Hell i was loosing my hope.I was going to warez it as it seemed that devs were truly not interested to get my money as it was so unbeliveable hard to find.I'm so happy that i didn't and i was able to find it.I quess many people weren't so lucky.IT would be amaizing thing if Pb would release all gothics and the addon for gothic 2 in full box.they could also fix all the remaining bugs in gothic 1 before re-release
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The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:06 pm |
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Xerxes712
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 605
Location: Uber die Welt |
WalMart a HUGE retail sales store here in USA will be carrying Gothic 2. Atari has many deals with them and G2 will get ALOT of exposure, at least on the shelf.
It has been rumored greatly that the voice acting and bug fixes with polishing of game has been done for US Gothic 2.
I have seen some Ad banners showing up on major 'game' sites. Some.
Maybe G2 will make up for the poor MOO3 foisted upon fans; keep them in business. ATARI is releasing quite a few good titles coming up...
Deus Ex does have relative same basic RPG elements and open ended gameplay like Gothic. Try playing Thief 1 and 2, it is a great game.
A Fall / Holiday release for G2 in USA is going to have stiff competition from many good games from several genres being released. Unless you are rich, to buy all the great games coming out for Christmas!
Too bad it was not released during summer, it was a slow market.
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Wo ist mein Sumpfkraut? |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:24 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
Now, if they can just resist censoring it.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:18 am |
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Dez
King of the Realms
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 455
Location: Fortress of Tell Halaf |
personaly i'm waiting Deus Ex2 - invisible war and kotor pc-version more than anything right now!Also doom 3 looks way too cool to pass by..Sadly it looks like the release of hl2 has been pushed back :/.Also homeworld 2 is something i'd like to get my hands into.As I love good II world war games call of duty is a must and no-one should forget upcoming release of hidden and dangerous 2! .Lastly good old worms has gone 3d.If i could count all the fun me and my friends had with orginal worms back in 90's...
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The focused mind can pierce through stone |
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:26 am |
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Scott
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Colorado |
Dont forget UFO Aftermath if you're an X-Com 1&2 fan!
That comes out the 17th
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The arrows flew at us so thick as to blot out the sun, so I says to young Angus, "Well, at least now we'll be fighting in the shade." |
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:47 am |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
This is the best thread that i have read on this site. Sales ARE the most relative subject to the Big Boys, not you or me, us fanatics, but THEIR investment ! - - - I have gathered that many gamers have played Gothic2 firstly, then learned about (or are playing) Gothic, secondly. strange thing this "media control" - -"We are all but pawns in one giant RPG game" 
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Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:42 pm |
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Hagen
Counselor of the King
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 350
Location: England |
heh UFO aftermath is terrible! and the voices will drive you INSANE! not to mention the 25 meter limit on almost all guns ranges... some low powered ass guns on that game
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"There are many questions which fools can ask that wise men cannot answer."
--George Polya (1887-1985) |
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Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:11 pm |
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