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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Yes, everyone can have his own opinion. Somebody likes Wiz8, somebody not.
But I simply can not understand how someone can say its worst game ever or it is worst RPG ever. It is simply not true. |
Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:45 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
1. Some people just want to express them self in extreme feelings (Hate , love), in fear not to be heard, if they didn't.
2. Others don't have the patient to learn some games steeper learning curves, and reject them, even before they have started it, and develop a hate for the game.
3. Great unfulfilled expectations is another reason why some people turn their feelings directly into hate instead of a more moderate conclussion.
4. The competition between two hot games (EX: Morrowind, Gothic2) seems also to trigger some people into an insane love/hate relation, maybe with a little connection to 1.
5. Ofcourse, it's possible just to simple hate a game for what it is (Don't like the genre), but then to mention a love connection for other more or less similar games will put the gamer back into category 1., 2. or 3.
I'm not saying that those 5 reasons are valid reasons to develop hate / love relations, not at all, it's just what I have experienced in many forums.
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:39 am |
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Desdicado
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 58
Location: Scotland |
quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
Yes, everyone can have his own opinion. Somebody likes Wiz8, somebody not.
But I simply can not understand how someone can say its worst game ever or it is worst RPG ever. It is simply not true.
I think what Michael C is saying has a lot of truth, in my case I think my disppointment with the game has made my feelings against it stronger than they may have been had I not been looking forward to it so much.
But I can honestly say out of all the dozens of RPGs I've played it is the one I have enjoyed least at the time, for the reasons previously stated.
At the moment I'm playing Divine Divinity and Might and Magic 6 again, both of which I'm enjoying far more. |
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:01 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Desdicado: First of all, I fully agree with Danicek, that everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I respect that. But we still can discuss the opinions, even if it end up in no change of opinions of either side.
So.. You claim you like MM6 (One of my favorits also), but don't like Wiz8.
Your stated reasons were:
1. Endless combat in Wiz8.
I dare to say that MM6 had many endless combats too, and besides in WIZ8, you can evade almost any combat (except the bosses) by using the party-run button and your circle-radar. I've made the trip from the monestary to Arnika many times without getting into any fight.
BTW there is a small patch that reduces the AI combat time to an absolut minimum, making combat 70-80% faster.
2.NPCS are lacking flair and background and have very limited dialogue
If you still can enjoy MM6, I'm not seeing the problem with Wiz8 (it's no "Unreal" engine, but I find it okay)
3.Sure character development was good and you had a lot of control, but to what end as the monsters increased as well.
Yes, the random monsters did increase in a certain pace as your party incresed in levels, but not nearly as much. Try go back to the monestary with a level 15 party and see for yourself, a walk in the park, and combat lenght mostly under 1 minut.
4.Did I mention the combat?, not complicated, just tedious.
I have to say compared to many many other CRPG's (Might & Magic, Gothic 2, Baldurs gate 1+2 etc.) Wiz8 offers a more complex combat system by it's semi-turnbased nature, tons of bad/good ailments, spells weapons, combat items, position of your party/character etc. Admitted a few key combats can take quite some time, but I don't find them tedious, as they mostly are quite challenging, and the right strategy can make a world of difference for the outcome.
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Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:31 pm |
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shrewgirl
Head Merchant
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 51
Location: isolated mountain top when not at work |
For months I have had to avoid this forum because of this one topic; it has made me sick...so I came back with the pollyannaish hope that so many other posts would have occured in other topics it wouldn't even come up in the screen...silly me, anyway this post is directed at Des... I passionately love Wiz 8(and all other 7 that I played in college) it has been a FRIEND to me todistract me from reality when my real life has just been too painful to deal with...I have tried to play Divine Divinity that you mention with so much relish...I thought I would like it, I 've restarted it a couple of times; but I just couldn't get into it...I've played many games but none have INVOLVED me to the extent of Wiz 8 and the rest of the series...of course the fact that I beat my son to the finish in Wiz 8 and now he has beaten me to the end of Divine Divinity have nothing whatsoever to do with it  but I think the fact that Wiz 8 is such a great game is proven by the amount of discussion in this and similar posts...if it was the worst game then you wouldn't have so many come to defend it, especially since many who defend this game have played through it long ago...maybe we should start another thread, Why is Wiz 8 one of the best games ever...but if we did it would shut the site down, there wouldn't be enough bandwidth to hold all of the praise...I've decided I am just not going to give in and look at this particular topic anymore, it will be better for my blood pressure  
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Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:47 pm |
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Sannive
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Sweden |
I think it could have something to do with patience... When I feel like planning, thinking and to well played fights, I go to my Wizard8. If I feel like just killing something very violently after a bad day at work, I either go for my Diablo2 or Gothic 2. I like them all! If you want me to name a BAD game, try out blood omen 2 or Gabriel Knight 3...
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Starwich
member of The Gothic Rogues |
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Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:21 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by Sannive
I think it could have something to do with patience... When I feel like planning, thinking and to well played fights, I go to my Wizard8. If I feel like just killing something very violently after a bad day at work, I either go for my Diablo2 or Gothic 2. I like them all! If you want me to name a BAD game, try out blood omen 2 or Gabriel Knight 3...
Agreed, Wiz8 is a mind demanding game, which especially in the beginning demands patience to find the right strategy.
I don't know about "Blood omen" (never played it), but why is GK3 all that bad. It's maybe not among the very best adventure games, but I don't think it hit the bottom either???
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Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:50 am |
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SecretMaster
Head Merchant
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Posts: 53
Location: NY |
Dude, Wiz8 is perhaps one of the best RPG's out there. Its an original. A lot of RPG's are ultimately the same, but Wiz8 is one of a kind. Count in the amount of time and work they put into this game, and you'll really appreciate it.
I remember when I was still hooked on Wiz 7, i heard about wiz8 being made. that was over 4 yrs ago. Sir tech kept trying to keep up with graphics and such, trying to please people. But eventually, they couldn't keep up, and so this was the final product (budget cuts were also probs). But the point is, they were trying to make this the best. And they did a good job. The follow up from wiz7-wiz8 was beautiful, enough said.
They ended lots of mysteries you had left in wiz7, and had many cameo appearances from NPC's from wiz7. Wizardry 8 was beautiful, the voice acting, the detail. The only real drawback is the graphics, but for what its worth, I would settle for good old nintentdo graphics.
As for combat, you will appreciate this so called "long and annoying combat", once you find yourself in deep sh*t and need to plan out things. It really brings out the strategist in you. And even if the fight is really easy, it gives you time to try different combat tactics, you always will learn something new.
As for the plot, I can't even go into description, it is just mind blowing. |
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Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:43 am |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
I havent played it much but what I did play I liked a lot.
To me its a perfect game to play when I just want to relax. No stress, no time limit. Just explore, fight, and chat at your own pace.
Very interesting world. But definately not for the "I want it all and I want it now" or the "I want it hard and fast" (No comments plz  ) people.
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:20 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
Wizardry 8 is a wonderful game - use the combat speed enhancer for faster gameplay:
http://www.geocities.com/shau185/downloads.html
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Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:27 pm |
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Arcadia
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 10
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I'm an hour or so into the game, and already I don't see myself finishing it. I'm at level 6 or 7, having made it to Arnika Rd (I've read somewhere here things get better as u level up), but the point is, I find the navigation awkard, and the combat system excruciatingly tedious and SLOW.
I can't think of another RPG game I've played where they overwhelm u with such numbers - as many as 22 beasties in a SINGLE encounter??? This, plus the fact that monsters here spawn with such frequent regularity, it makes just moving around like pulling teeth. And talking of moving around, the map overlay isn't all that great, and u often find youself going around in circles.
I'm sure there're alot of devoted fans of this game out there, and it's obvious the developers have devoted a lot of time and effort into it (the manual is one of the best I've read, and clearly seems a labour of love), but I think this game can definitely be alot more FUN, and I find I can't buy that "some people can handle the complexity, and some can't" line. Who says complexity and FUN has to be mutually exclusive? |
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Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:09 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
First you need the combat speed patch. Download it from my site here:
http://val.rpgdot.com/wizfast.exe
That will speed up the combat so it's not so slow. Next, get out of the Arnika road area. It's a little unbalanced in my opinion. Head north to Mt. Gigas. You'll have an easier time up there. You'll get some missions to go south from them and by that time you should be ready for the areas south. Train up your spellcaster's skills by casting protection spells all of the time. You'll see their abilities increase greatly which will give you the edge in battles. Plus, those protection spells are nice.
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Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:51 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
The Arnika Road map is the most frustrating zone in the entire game. Lots of monster spawns, and tough monsters (relative to party strength) to boot. Stick with it at least as far as Arnika or Mount Gigas (depending on which way you turn), and it should get a bit better for you.
Do you have the combat speed-up utility, "Wizfast"? It dramatically speeds up the monster's portion of combat, which is rather plodding even for us dedicated fans.
edit- well, looks like 2nd place for me again...
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RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:52 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:56 pm |
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Arcadia
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 10
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I'd actually left Wiz 8, and instead replayed Atari's Greyhawk TOEE. Later, I found out abt the patch I cud download (thx), and I agree with both ur comments abt Arnika Rd. Actually, I wud go further - that not only is Arnika Rd unbalanced, it's so right from the Monastery to where I find myself now - Marten's Bluff. The battles are not necessarily tough, although a few of them are - strangely, I find some of the boss fights surprisingly easy, while those with lesser creatures can be more challenging.
No, what bugs me is the gameplay - personally, I find it skewed. First, there's the spawn rate - u often can't walk 100 yds (maybe less) w/o running into something. And, on many occasions, u find as soon as u finish a battle, another grp of monsters set upon u, giving u no opportunity to find camp, or for that matter, to explore. Does anyone honestly want to crush bats, wasps, and golems every other minute? I find I just quit and reload the game when it gets too grindingly repetitive.
Then, there's this other thing - playing catch up. Sometimes, the last surviving baddie in combat will flee, or when u inflict say, blind status on them, they most certainly will. It then takes an eternity to catch and kill them off. Monsters here can basically run forever, and hv inexhaustible stamina (ur party doesn't). One can of course abandon pursuit, but then, the beastie is just probably going to be lurking around the corner, sneaking up on u shud u camp. Personally, I like to finish them all off in one go.
Another thing is. though, I find this more amusing than annoying - anyone noticed that the bad guy's spells can somehow reach around corners, damaging ur party, while ur spellcasters can't do the same to them?. In fact (I really hv a good laugh over this), on occasions, my spellcaster's spell wud backfire spectacularly (magic missiles, I think) and fried herself and half her party?! LOL The other status effects spell can be just as suspect too. And yes, I've invested a good no of skill points in those spell classes.
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here. This isn't a bad game, certainly not the worst. Perhaps it wud grow on me the longer I play, and I hope it does, but right now, I wudn't call it great. |
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Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:38 am |
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