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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Will the New Campers attack Mud if you have him with you when you deliver the last Focus Stone to Saturas?
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
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Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:06 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
imposteraz,
Sadly, there are are only 2 natural "latchers" in the game, Shrat & Mud. Instances in the storyline that are critical (where characters must not fail a particular task) trigger the f=2 (immortal) flag, or the story could not continue (as you know). after the task the flag is dropped to normal.
your observations about "multiples" are true, killing off the excess is correct. Only 1 Mud will tag to you, Shrat, you can have several.
Cheating is CHEATING, morally there is no such thing as a small cheat. however, - - having tweaked Shrat and Muds (and pc-hero's) stats high but not immortal f=2 at the start of the game, then the mighty 3 are going to the end in a "true" storyline manner (no inserting focus stones ect' ect') so at the end of the game there will have been NO time when Shrat and Mud were absent or any false trails (dead ends)
MageofFire.
Yes, i had Mud with me at one time in the new camp (his stats were low) and he was killed off by the rogues, however, currently (with stats high) not one rogue moved against him. In fact it was hilarious to watch as even "Lares" ran off at high speed, this comes about via the automatic assesment made by most characters in gothic. If the camper attack they may have to be "dealt with"
keep this thread alive, it has a continuous nature. 
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Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:39 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
I've noticed that the higher level guilds (Guards, Mercenaries, Templars, and above) fear nothing (there are exceptions such as that low-level Mercenary near Gorn's hut) no matter how powerful it is. Would the Mercenaries and Mages of Water attack high-level Mud?
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:09 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
I had Dusty at Level 999 and immortal (Flags=2), and the mercenaries protecting the Water Mages (as well as Shrat and Lester) attacked him anyway when I gave the last Stone to Saturas.
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:22 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Awesome! 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:27 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Wulf,
I understand what you mean about cheating and CHEATING. I'm trying to keep the cheats down to a minimum -- just enough to get to a situation not normally allowed for in the game, but not too much of a hack as to make the game obsurd.
Though I set Shrat to immortal and level 999 (to keep him from running from everything), I don't up his stats except through giving him (and Dusty) amulets and rings -- and then the better weapons that they can now use. They are not unstoppable death machines, but won't actually die either (too much of a hassle to worry about when leading a group of up to 4 followers and making sure none get lost).
To each his own comfort level of "cheating".
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:41 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
There is no moral justification in setting the f=2 flag to on, it's an overkill, lets go deeper, using my current level in the game, i'll give you an example, Mud/Shrat & me (with no f=2s on) have interacted with all rogues and watermages, they do not attack, if Mud draws his sword (red_wind) any one of them run away. For the purpose of testing, us three went to the old camp and stood in front of gomez, posessing Mud with Gomez in focus i drew my sword on gomez. he sat still and no words spoken, i gave him a quick thrust. he said "put the weapon away" but no action (he has assessed my stats and knows he will get whooped) i jabbed him again, he said "right, youve asked for it" he then layed into me (mud), a quick posession here to pc-hero left Mud and Gomez battling away. Mud was slowly weakening. i then posessed Gomez. did a quick f8 to jump, then looked at his abilities. and yes, Gomez had his f=2 flag on. quickly i put it on f=1 and posessed pc-hero and watched as Mud killed Gomez with a quick left & right. you will know that later in the game (when you get revenge) guess what, yes, the game will put Gomez's flag onto 1.
The f=2 flag does NOT get assessed by you opponent. level 999 is way too high. you can walk through the game on 50. go to edit ab's and concentrate on the 3 ( settings, protection, attributes & damage. It's these settings that make NPCs NOT run away. No potions, food, rings ect' ect' are needed.
There is a command similar to HERO_EXPORT. its SAVE_POSITION(X) then later GOTO_POSITION(X) - - (back at any time to where you were) very handy!
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:19 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Heh, heh, that's pretty cool.
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:29 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Yes, very cool tip. Thanks.
As to using the immortal flag, I really think this is depends on what type of game you want to play. Gothic actually gives the followers mentioned (except Shrat and Mud) to you as immortals, anyway.
If you want a more "realistic" game, then, yes, you should switch off immortality for any NPCs you take on as followers. But then you need to manage them more carefully -- healing potions, armor, anfdthen increasing their stats to keep pace with yours (at least Life points and Level). If you do this, though, you add a lot more bookkeeping to the game and it becomes more like traditional RPGs with a party of 4-6 characters to manage.
For me, I prefer to leave Gothic as a single-PC game and keep the management of followers to a minimum. To do this, I just bring Shrat to the same immortal status Gothic gives the other NPCs to me as. I don't mess with their stats (except Level, to keep them from running away). If I want to increase their capabilites, I use amulets, rings, weapons and potions I legitimately find along the way. For me, this keeps the original flavor of Gothic and keeps me from a lot of NPC management.
To each his own.
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:53 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
Imposteraz.
Hope i was'nt being too critical, just "game technical" i agree with your "gentlemans" approach, nothing more than too much sounds good. I think your Dusty would not have been attacked if his stats were a touch higher. I have no "bookkeeping" to do with Shrat & Mud even set at immortal and no npc management they are almost invisible to the game, they have killed everything in the game storyline so far and no human has yet attacked them, they have never ran from any foe. I still have a problem with Shrat not able to use runes. that would be really cool!. Did you find your followers were a "nuisance" say, down the mine or climbing up and down ladders?
_________________
Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:54 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
I deliberately didn't take any followers into the Old Mine for that very reason -- I had enough trouble with Shrat and Dusty trying to follow me around in the Mountain Fort. I had good success with Shrat and Dusty, plus Baal Lukor, in the Orc Cemetary, since no ladders to climb.
I'll see how things go in the Orc Temple -- I'll try taking Shrat, Dusty and Gorn in there (and also see if I can get Milten to hang around in there too). It should be real fun trying to get everyone up the 4 pillars to reach the second shaman's tomb.  Maybe I'll just go through the crawler tunnel and come back up the ramp instead. We'll see.
Also, I didn't take your comments as criticism, I was just clarifying my approach to followers. Who knows, I might even try it the other way and see if I can run a party of 3-5 almost-PCs and see what that is like, too.
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:22 pm |
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Wulf
The Shepherd
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England |
I like to hear of other players new "angles". I see you have some further cool idea's up your sleave, could you actually get milton in there? would be good.
I went the full course down the mine, up and down the ladders. got the gearwheel, fixed the masher, killed the queen, etc' it did tax my patience but i had to be true in the cause, i enjoyed it.
When i climbed a ladder, Shrat or Mud would follow if i moved some distance away at the top. If they were far away and running in circles. i would aim my bow then when they were focused, (still with my left hand on "control") i would "o" to posess otherwise it got too much.
I'm now on my way to the orc camp! will keep posting
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Forever aches my wretched soul, for Chromanin locked in that dark hole, though crypted key i've yet to learn, he knows one day i will return. |
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:37 pm |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Wulf,
Wow, you have a lot more patience than I do! And thanks for the tip on arming a bow to be able to focus on an NPC at longer range (to allow the "o" possession). I'll probably need it in the Orc Temple.
I'm actually away on vacation right now and don't have access to play Gothic until at least Friday. (I'm going through Gothic withdrawal  )
I'll certainly let everyone know how things go in the Orc Temple with all those followers as soon as I get back to the game.
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:09 am |
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imposteraz
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Arizona, USA |
Hello all,
I know it's been a while since I said I'd try bringing followers along with me into the Orc Temple, but something came along to distract me from Gothic --- Gothic II !
I finally did get back to bringing followers along in the Orc Temple. Here's my report:
1. Milten -- definitely useful to have around and is no trouble when fighting.
2. Lester -- also a big help and no problem to have around.
3. Gorn -- good fighter to have, but that bug where he attacks you if anything hurts him is really a pain. I eventually gave up and got rid of him.
4. Shrat -- not worth the effort! He's not a very good fighter anyway and he keeps running away calling me a murderer whenever I kill one of those fanatical Templers! (Murderer? Who, me?  )
5. Dusty -- didn't even try, since this is after the closing of the Old Camp and the other followers would just keep attacking him (see thread above).
6. Mud -- same as for Dusty. Also, I can't stand him anyway.
Overall, I'd only recommend using Milten and Lester. They will help you with all monsters, demons and most undead. Unfortunately, they will not attack Templers or Orcs (live or undead), since they "think" of them as NPCs and not monsters.
Well, that's it. I hope no one was holding their breath waiting for this golden drop of wisdom. 
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imposterAZ
"OK, I've got the 'No Die' part." |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:42 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Two questions: About Lester: Once you get him to follow you anywhere, can you still go back with him and get the Focus Stone, or will he not follow you across the bridge?
And about setting characters to immortal (or unimmortal), do you have to posess them and then use the Marvin-Mode console or what?
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:52 pm |
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