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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
Thats too bad. I think my grandfather had some kidney stone problems... but he's a wacko so I didnt really care.
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If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
@Val- 
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:09 pm |
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Cm
Sentinel of Light
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 5209
Location: Missouri USA |
@MageofFire and Val. Thanks. They turned out to be O.K. Lots of pains and bruises, but that's all. And the other driver was ok as well. Thank God for that. The other driver has full coverage insurance as well, so all the bills should get taken care of. 
@ Val *OUCH* I know that is painful. Hope she get over it fast. I will send good vibes to you.
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=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Member of Worshippers of the Written Word=
A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval.
Mark Twain
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Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:21 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
I think I agree with Val. Blaming objects for things that are a person's fault is placing the blame at the door of something that can't protest it.
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-=Professional Secret Agent=-
Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
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Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:16 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Yeah, you guys (Val and Wanda) are right: without the driver, the car doesn't move. But without the people building and marketing the car, it doesn't get into the hands of careless drivers.
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:30 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Well, shall we start blaming all manufacturers for what idiots do with their products? They already have to put warning labels on everything and anything, not that people pay any attention to them. Nor do they read the operating manual unless you twist their bloody arm.
I don't blame manufacturers for the actions of an idiot. I blame the idiot for their exceedingly poor choices.
Sorry, but I'll never buy into the "companies are evil and force people to buy their product" arguement as long as people can exercise free agency. No one is twisting the consumer's arm or pointing a gun to their head and forcing them to buy it.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:14 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
The machine has no will of it's own. A human however, does. That human can choose whether to make it good or bad. A machine doesn't have a choice, it has no free agency.
Nice try, Moondragon, but no cigar.
Are you sure you want me to continue this? This horse can take quite a bit more beating, but unless you're willing to broaden your horizons, we may just as well shoot it dead right here and now.
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:30 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
There is nothing to broaden. Machines can only do what they are programmed to do. You can't wave a magic wand and make them come alive.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:40 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
@Val-  Don't you see that I'm blaming the people marketing these products. Haven't you noticed how SUVs and giant trucks are marketed?
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:07 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Yes, I do watch television on occasion although not as much anymore. It bores me. Most of the ones with trucks and SUVs are in the outdoors driving through big puddles of mud or hauling big loads of stuff. So what? They're selling the strong points of the vehicle.
Take my little brother for instance. He drives a huge Dodge dual-wheel full-sized truck. You want to know why? Because he works in construction and he needs something that can haul a lot of stuff. A minivan isn't going to haul construction equipment. He fits right into the target group that would buy such a vehicle.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:28 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
There is nothing to broaden. Machines can only do what they are programmed to do. You can't wave a magic wand and make them come alive.
Well, Val, considering that my professional designation denotes me as someone who's goal in life is to give volition to machines, I would tend to disagree. You see, you make a very big leap in argumentation. You assume that the fact machines do only what they are programmed to do means they have no volition or that it implies they cannot be alive. What if I were to program a machine to be alive and have volition?
Additionally (before you repeat yourself), in claiming that humans have will and machines do not, and possibly go as far as claiming that machines never will be able to have it, you failed to do something very important. Define what will is. And no, it's not obvious or self apparent. There are many different definitions of will and there are many, very serious, philosophical debates going on whether they exist and whether they can be enumerated, quantified and mechanically replicated.
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:31 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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@MoonDragon: Will is defined simply as having deliberate intention of doing something, having the free desire to do that. A machine will never, ever have such free will, because a machine follows instructions. It has no freedom, it must follow its program, or project, or design, or whatever. A machine that doesn't is a faulty machine.
On the other hand, if you really want to get knee deep in philosophy here, humans also can be considered machines. But they're not inanimate, they have life. So, what differentiates then is life. And life, my friend, is something which no philosopher or biologist has been able to define fully. There's no globally accepted definition. You'd be hard pressed to find one globally accepted paradigm, let alone definition.
And, Christ, blaming inanimate machines? What are you people, luddites? 
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:50 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
goshuto is right.
Besides, pulling out a philosophical smokescreen to try and cover up the fact that machines can only do what they are told to do is not going to make me buy into your arguement.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:45 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
"Philosophical smokescreen". I'm going to have to remember that one.
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-=Professional Secret Agent=-
Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
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Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:48 am |
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cfmdobbie
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 1859
Location: London, England |
_________________
Charlie Dobbie
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Moderator of the Morrowind/Oblivion Forums= |
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Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:48 am |
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