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| What religion are you? |
| Jewish |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| Christian |
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50% |
[ 11 ] |
| Athiest |
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27% |
[ 6 ] |
| Budhist |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| don't know |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
Why does it do what it does? That doesn't even really matter, all religions (that worship a single God) see God as the creator of life. We know pretty much how our life was created scientiffically, so there can be no true athiest, your God is the matter itself. If there was no matter, there would be no you, that is undisputible. You have to believe that the matter created you, and the matter would then be your Creator. Creator is another name for God.
Hahaha... talk about desperately stretching it. So, in another way, your parents are your gods?
Your statement completely depends on how you define a god. And, in the end, 'god' is just a word used to simplify. Noone (at least that I know of) prays to matter. No one believes it has some un-natural traits. We are made from matter, or to be more exact; we ARE matter. So I am my own god? Guess that's kind of true.
quote:
From what I understand all the matter in the universe seems to expand and contract in a never ending cycle.
Actually, the way it looks today, the universe is ever expanding. It might also be the first of it's kind.
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:47 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I'm pretty far off from knowing everything, but it seems to me that no matter the how of it, you have to see something as a predominant view. If a series of unrelated and chaotic events happended to spwan life, then wouldn't chaos be your master?
God: (god), n. 1. The creator and ruler of the universe; Supreme Being.
That is from Webster's College Dictionary.
So Hexy, the definition of God would not be dependent on the person, just their view on what created the universe and rules it. If Choas created it and is the predominant factor in what rules it then Chaos is your God. If matter did did it, and matter is the binding force then matter is your God. If nothing created it and nothing rules it, then nothing itself is your God.
My father believes autonomy is what governs the universe and is an aethist. He also believes in logic. The only fallacy that can be imposed on logical deduction is the creator part, he has no belief on how the universe was created. He also has no problems with the definition of God I use. But he rufues to follow logic.
1) God is the creator and ruler of the unvirse.
2) Autonomy rules the universe.
Autonomy is God.
He does not believe this. But if I were to say for exemple:
1) Man is good
2) I am a man
Then I must be good. If I am bad then one of the logical assumtions is wrong. It is unlogical to assume that a God would be the ruler of the universe by definition, and believe that the universe is ruled by autonomy and still be athiest.
But I can't convince him who I argues with when my mind was clearer and worked a lot better than it does now, so I don't expect to win here when my posts are probably barely readable or coherent.
@Gashuto, I have read all of Job. God rewards his follower for staying faithful even though God murdered his family and destroyed his life, proving Satan wrong in their petty, childish, and murderous competition. I see that as my having my wife raped and taking her out to dinner because she didn't enjoy it and put up a struggle in her attempt to stay faithful to me. Or if my neighbor told me that my child really didn't love me and only listened to me because I was her parent and things were pretty good for her, and I said "no my kid loves me no matter what." And my neighbor says "prove it." So I beat the bejesus out of my kid and poor acid on her face and kill her mother and cut off her friends heads and inject her with aids and urinate on her stuffed animals and she still loves me after, I proved my neighbor wrong. But I also proved I am not benevolent or a loving or a good father in doing it. I see God more as the New Testement's Gospels report Jesus as describing him. And the two pictures just do not coincide.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:35 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
So Hexy, the definition of God would not be dependent on the person, just their view on what created the universe and rules it. If Choas created it and is the predominant factor in what rules it then Chaos is your God. If matter did did it, and matter is the binding force then matter is your God. If nothing created it and nothing rules it, then nothing itself is your God.
My father believes autonomy is what governs the universe and is an aethist. He also believes in logic. The only fallacy that can be imposed on logical deduction is the creator part, he has no belief on how the universe was created. He also has no problems with the definition of God I use. But he rufues to follow logic.
1) God is the creator and ruler of the unvirse.
2) Autonomy rules the universe.
Ah, but god is also a being, according to major belief. Autonomy is no being. Neither is chaos. They are abstract descriptions. You simply try to shove down a word in my throat that only works in a language-esque kind of way.
Those two requisites up there are of opposing view, and you try to make one view more dominant than the other, thus integrating the second into the first.
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:44 pm |
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Kiwi Boy
High Emperor
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1086
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Also...
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
God rewards his follower for staying faithful even though God murdered his family and destroyed his life, proving Satan wrong in their petty, childish, and murderous competition.
*confused* ... Did God Himself murder Job's family and destroy his life? |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:51 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
quote:
Originally posted by Hexy
Ah, but god is also a being, according to major belief. Autonomy is no being. Neither is chaos. They are abstract descriptions. You simply try to shove down a word in my throat that only works in a language-esque kind of way.
Those two requisites up there are of opposing view, and you try to make one view more dominant than the other, thus integrating the second into the first.
Being: n. 1. The state or quality of having existance. 2. a. An object, idea, or symbol that exists, is thought to exist, or is represented as existing. 3. One's basic or essential nature. 4. Philos. a. That which can be concieved as existing. b. Absolute existence in its perfect and unqualified state; the essense of existensce.
Do not confuse human being with being. If it exsists as an idea it is a being. Why does god need to have human qualities? The creator and ruler of the universe does not need to be anything besides a being, which could be idea, nothing, chaos, a testicle, dark matter, a feeling, or anything. Human beings are limited and often have trouble breaking things down to the bare essense. But that is often what is needed to find the validity of things like taboo's, existense, being, etc. Just open your mind and imagine what I say is your own idea, and think about that idea, instead of trying to disagree. My father has yet to do that, I'm wrong becuase I'm wrong and that's it. But I refuse to believe I'm wrong, or at least not right, until someone actually puts some thought into what I say. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I'm not wrong until it is thought about unprejudicly.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:11 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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First off:
Being:
1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : LIFE
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : ESSENCE; especially : PERSONALITY
3 : a living thing; especially : PERSON
Hmm... ocurring references: Person, life, essence, personality. Are these things you find in all things? No. Not everything that exists is a being. It is mostly referred to something that is conscious.
quote:
Do not confuse human being with being. If it exsists as an idea it is a being. Why does god need to have human qualities? The creator and ruler of the universe does not need to be anything besides a being, which could be idea, nothing, chaos, a testicle, dark matter, a feeling, or anything.
Oh but god IS referred to as a being with human features/tendencies by the oh-so-important majority. YOU as well speak of god in human terms (creator and ruler of the universe is NOT something you say about chaos, for example). And, you still try to simplify other ideas by twisting it so you can label it 'god'. Chaos and god are NOT the same thing, at least if we are to go by the oh-so important dictionaries, and the major opinion.
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:29 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
We can go on defining things like life etc. You can give life to idea and the idea comes into being. Being is existing. A fork exosits and is l;ifeless.
My personal beliefs on god are personal beliefs. There is written no where that god has to be human like. God can be anything. But if you accept that fact that God is the creator of life and ruler of the universe by definition. Then I don't see how it is possible for you to accept that life was somehow created and there is a universe, and whatever created life (no matter how abstarct or ungodlike by popular opinion) and rules the universe (wether autoinomy or nothing at all) cannot be defined as your god.
My personal "beliefs" of what created life and the universe do not matter and have nothing do do with the fact that I believe that being athiest is impossible. Something or nothing started life and something or nothing rules the universe, and that something or nothing is the creator and ruler of the universe, and logically that would make that something or nothing your god. You don't have to worship it, or sacrifice virgins to it, or do anything at all. Just realize that your belief that the universe was created or happened andlife was created or happened makes you non-atheist. You can be agnostic and not know what created the universe or life and theirfore have no god, and maybe most aithiests fall into this. But as soon as you have a belief on what created life and the universe (no matter how obstract, off-the-wall, or ungodlike) you have a god and a religion. I would define religion but you don't seem to like it, but it started out as a way to explain things like lightning and stuff like that, and means a belief system and broken down all the way would mean a belief system on the creation of life, and how the universe works.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:04 pm |
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Snoekie
Baron of the Court
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 335
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands |
I am not "in" or a "follower" of a specific religion.
I did go to a Christian elementry school though, so I know all the main stories in the bible.
That doesn't make me Christian but it's the one religion I know the most of.
Is there a God? Yes I think there is. But I don't know if it's one divine power or person or maybe a divine spark all living things have within them.
Or maybe it's both of them. But I believe there is more between Heaven and Earth so to speak 
Is there reincarnation or an afterlife? Perhaps, I don't know and frankly it's not that important to me.
I live my life *now*. Not in the past and not in the future.
I believe in doing the right thing. But even that is relative because what *I* think is right could be dead-wrong to another person.
Sooo...I guess I don't fit into any existing religion nor would I call myself a disbeliever.
Put me down for Yogi then  If I remember correctly Yogi's are keeping all options open and are looking for enlightenment and the ultimate truth.
This could very well mean my path is different then yours but in the end we all arrive at the same point. |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:05 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
Something or nothing started life and something or nothing rules the universe, and that something or nothing is the creator and ruler of the universe, and logically that would make that something or nothing your god.
Here's my problem. Something or nothing rules the universe? How about the universe ruling itself? A god is still:
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler
This is NOT a thing that simply exist. God is more described as a creature, a sentinent being, rather than all concepts. A god is worshipped, and believed to have supernatural abilities. All this seemingly goes against YOUR INTERPRETATION of what god is. A word is a word. And the word 'god' can NOT be used as you like when speaking in a general sense. God is NOT molecules and atoms. God is NOT radiation or quarks. God is a fantasy creature some people believe exist, something which can be used as label for all unexplained things. You beginning to see a picture here?
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:17 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Hexy, I believe yours points are more valid. People can believe what they want. No matter the parellel with what makes a religion or a god.
@Kiwi Boy...from what I remember yes. I do not own a bible any more and the last time I read job I was in Catholic high school. Would those things have happened to Job if God and Satan didn't enter into competition?
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:40 pm |
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Winter_Bloom
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 25
Location: That's a good question |
I'm Agnostic.
_________________
I am here... I think. |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:51 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
The Imperial Cult
We acknowledge the divinity of the Nine Divines- Akatosh, Dibella, Arkay, Zenithar, Mara, Stendarr, Kynareth, Julianos, and Tiber Septim.
I have a special love for Dibella, and have made a glorious shrine unto Her I always visit before I enter battle.
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:50 am |
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