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Rebooter
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
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| Scaling System - I think my game is ruined |
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I hadn't started the main quest because I wanted to just do the Thieve's Guild and side quests, but it quickly has become apparent that I can't finish the main quest because of this scaling system.
I just started to go back to the main quest at level 16. I had to do a quest to kill 5 vampires, but some of them are simply impossible for my character to kill. There's an orc vampire that I tried over and over and over to kill for 30+ minutes.
It's like he's in god mode. He appears to be an expert at blade and power moves. I can only damage him a little bit. I can't block most of his attacks, he just pounds me and pounds me and everytime I try to attack, he hits me, then does a spin and pounds me again. I tried spells and poisoning my blade, magical weapons, etc., but it's just hopeless. I can do it if I adjust the dificulty slider down, but having to do that sucks.
This scaling system just isn't right. They tell you all this about how you can play however you want, but you really can't, you obviously must follow the main quest from the start or you find yourself totally outmatched. I spent a lot of time on this character and now I feel like the joke's on me. |
Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:18 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Yes, there were some other reports on this scaling system (nearly) ruining the main quest (the possiblity to do some parts of it), these people mentioned mainly Kvatch and the quest there.
Seems like there are other parts with this problem as well.
The auto-scaling system is very critisized because people don't like it. This however seems to be the real problem, I think it might be considered bug and will be probably fixed in some later patch. |
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Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:12 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Check out my thread "Am I screwed?", where I'm level 31 before even starting the main quest.. that almost ruined it for me, but I've managed for now.
You are defeinetly not screwed, I was your level against those vampires myself(the quest for Azura right?), and I had a really hard time with 1 or 2 of them, but the rest should be easy. If you have trouble with the tough melee vampires, you probably need to use healing potions to beat them, or paralyze potion or maybe even summoning scrolls, but it's definetly do-able with a little creative thinking.
To comfort you I can honestly say those vampires are among the hardest fights in the game(at least it was for me). |
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Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:07 am |
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Majnun
Village Leader
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 89
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Edit: Doh! I'm putting this before the rest of the post so you don't have to read my babble. You do *not* have to do the Azura quest at all. You just need a Daedric Artifact (ANY Daedric Artifact). There are 15 Daedric Shrines/Quests in the game and each one will give you a Daedric Artifact as the reward. You can use any of them for that stage of the main quest. Personally I would NOT use the Azura Star for the main quest since the Artifact you use gets destroyed...and it's kinda nice. Some of the Daedric Quests can even be done with very little or zero fighting. The quests have level requirements (2-20) but at 17th lvl you can do all of them except the last 3. So just forget that stupid vampire and go do a different one.
It's pretty silly that the Azura quest is one of the Daedric Quests you can do at the lowest lvl (2) yet it's one of the harder quests. And just plain cruel that they lead you to believe that it's the one you need to do for the main quest (when it cerainly isnt).
As for the scaling problems I had the same thing happen to me in Kvatch. I was about 16th lvl and had earned a *lot* of those levels by raising Sneak, Security, & Alchemy. So my combat skills were just not up to par.
That part of the main quest might not be so bad if the friendly guards scaled to your level too. But they don't so they died pretty easily leaving me to either lower the difficulty, cheat, or start over. I cheated for a bit then just decided to start over and do the main quest right from the start.
I think the main problem is spreading your skills/attributes too thin early on (until done with the main quest). If your primary means of killing things lags behind you're pretty much screwed.
If you have a save you can go back to maybe try getting/making a ton of potions before doing that fight (if you weren't already doing that). Drinking a Shield, Chameleon & Reflect Damage potion right before the fight is good...then a Restore Health when he's hit you a time or 2 to keep your health up. Replenish the shield when it wears off. Potions helped me *alot* with tough fights. Of course if you're outnumbered greatly it won't matter much. Other than that I think you're in the same boat I was...
One other thing you might try is a mod that lets you hire a Mercenary to fight along side you. Just long enough to do the part(s) of the main quest that are too tough. There are several out now. I heard this one was good but haven't tried any of them myself.
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Mercenary_Svenja |
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Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:20 am |
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Rebooter
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
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Thanks for the replies. I finally got fed up with it and turned the difficulty slider down. It set it back to default after killing the orc vamp.
I started working through the Fighters Guild and it's been realtively easy. I've also worked on my Blade and Block skills. Also, one thing I found is that doing power moves often gets me killed. Those Dread Zombies can be a real pain. I found that quick strokes of the blade and then jumping back is better than trying to block them. If they hit me once, it staggers me, then I get locked into a loop where I can't recover and they stagger me again and again until I'm dead, very frustrating especially when you've been working on them and gotten their health pretty low, then they get in a hit and it's all over! The same with Faded Wraiths--hitting them like crazy with fast strokes seems to do the trick.
I think with the orc vamp, the best I did was get him down to about half of his hit points, and that was the one time I didn't try power moves or blocking, I just hit him with quick moves and jumped back, so maybe this technique will be useful. |
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Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:39 am |
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HoLoPo1nT
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
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At level 17ish I found a quest to recover the ancestral armor/weapon of a family who was in trouble with gambling debts.
The first foe I encountered in the tomb was a Dread Zombie. My character is a ranged weapon only Agent at the moment and there simply is not enough room inside one of those cave maps to kite a powerful foe so I dragged him outside.
I must have pumped 100 silver arrows into him and when I ran out of them, as many steel and iron arrows as I had...I was only able to get him down to about 20% health before I got hitched up on a boulder and he slaughtered me.
At level 21 I encountered Dread Zombies in an Ayleid Ruin outside of Cheydinhal and was able to kill them fairly easily with a combination of arrows and Fireballs.
Some opponents have very fast health regeneration rates and are near impossible to kill until you have the right skill levels/spells to do the job.
Also, most mobs have a weakness to some form of attack in the same way they may have resistances to others and it's really a matter of trial and error to determine what those weaknesses are.
Laters,
HoLo |
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Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:22 pm |
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Bopoxdren
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 41
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Concerning the constant staggering loop you get into with fast and powerful hitting enemies - I've heard it called "stun-lock" - this really drove me insane with frustration early on in the game. But did you know that a high Agility Attribute will negate the amount of stuns and staggers you have?
When I found this out I focused on raising it quickly and it really seemed to help make my fights much more controlled. I can now pace the fight on my own terms and employ strategy a lot easier.
I wonder, what is your Agility score? Maybe try to up that a bit and try the fight again. |
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Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:44 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Bopoxdren
When I found this out I focused on raising it quickly and it really seemed to help make my fights much more controlled. I can now pace the fight on my own terms and employ strategy a lot easier.
I wonder, what is your Agility score? Maybe try to up that a bit and try the fight again.
If it is really the case, it is nice RPGish thing :]. I will give it a try as I'm starting to be annoyed by the same problem as well. |
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Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:56 am |
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Bopoxdren
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 41
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The manual states that agility affects your maneuverability and balance, among other things... which seemed to me a little vague in terms of combat. Nothing about staggering or knock backs. I didn't pick up this piece of info from the manual or any forums... it was from one of those loading screen blurbs.
In all my many hours of play time (lvl 25) I've come across this blurb only twice - as compared to some others (like the one about the stolen property and merchants refusal to buy etc...) I've seen about a hundred times. Funny thing, considering what a handy and useful piece of info it is.
Lastly, what you can expect with a higher Agility is that you don't seem to get stunned at all from an enemy basic attack and while you will sometimes still get stunned from a power attack (especially from an oger or minotaur) the stagger effect doesn't seem to last nearly as long.
Check it out and let us know what you find. |
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Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:37 pm |
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Father of Lies
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Perhaps the Acrobatics skill helps too: a journeyman (to quote the manual) gains the Dodge ability. |
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Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:33 pm |
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Rebooter
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 46
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quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
quote:
Originally posted by Bopoxdren
When I found this out I focused on raising it quickly and it really seemed to help make my fights much more controlled. I can now pace the fight on my own terms and employ strategy a lot easier.
I wonder, what is your Agility score? Maybe try to up that a bit and try the fight again.
If it is really the case, it is nice RPGish thing :]. I will give it a try as I'm starting to be annoyed by the same problem as well.
My agility is a bit low compared to my other stats, so I'm working on getting it higher. I noticed that I'm getting stun-lock from mountain lions, dread zombies, orges, etc., so I've definitely got to do somethhing about it. |
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:59 am |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
I think you should be careful about "wasting" too many points on Agility if your character is elsewise not an Agility-dependent class. I'm playing a Thief/Assassin/Marksman type of character (custom class and level 25 at the moment) and I got Sneak maxed out now at 100 (Master) which has more or less automatically led to a high Agility score, too.
My character's Agility is 101 so it's basically maxed out as well (it's being boosted by equipment so I can still raise it a little bit but 100 is the unmodified max value for stats).
The "beauty" of the scaling system, however, is that I can't really tell a tangible difference despite the high Agility. I still get stun-locked and/or knocked down in almost every single encounter (including the dreaded mountain lions who basically rape my poor dude... 50/50 chance of survival).
There is maybe a tiny little improvement compared to when I was lower level but overall it's just not worth it.
Unless your Agility is one of your major skill dependent stats, I really wouldn't bother to force any increases in that stat. Should be much more efficient to heavily work on your damage dealing stat (including Intellect for more spell points and thus more powerful spells). |
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:34 pm |
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Bopoxdren
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 41
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[quote="Moriendor"]I think you should be careful about "wasting" too many points on Agility).[/quote]
Well, you may have a point here, especially if your Agility is maxed out and your still getting stun-locked all the time. I pretty sure my combat experience has improved with this attribute increase... but then again, many other combat related stats of mine have gone up considerably too. Block; blade; heavy armor; strength, etc... Who's to say that it's my higher Agility alone.
So, while I will stand behind my statement, I will not preach it as gospel here.
Apart from Agility, there is something that rings true with your statement about wasting attribute points. Case in point: I created 3 enchanted armor pieces all with Fortify Willpower +10 points. (when I got my Mage guild recommendations) Then with my Willpower upped by 30 points I fired off a bunch of fireballs and watched to see my magika recharge rate zip back to full with lightening speed. No go! I could barley discern a difference. That was a definate waste of Attribute points. Good thing I saved first... |
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:16 pm |
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bjon045
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 234
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Your game is certainly not ruined, just build up your combat skills in places with easy monsters such as imp and bandit caves. Make sure you train block and your armourer skill (if they are not your primary skills). I had the same problem with my theif around level 10-20 where he could barely win 1 on 1 encounters, by level 20 he stood a chance 1 on 2 by level 30 he was 1 hit killing any enemy mages with his sneak attack and able to kill 5 daedroths at the same time!!!!
A few suggestions:
Nocturals Cowl is probably one of the most powerful items in the game, using that and a few items with a bonus to camoflage you can get MULTIPLE sneak attacks, against some monsters you can little do a crit and rehide in less than 1 second, and against some human opponents the with resheath their weapon everytime you hide!! Note that this does not work against monsters with a very high stealth detection ability or in places with brigth lighting.
Stealth is your most powerful skill as a thief, once you get past level 25 you should start finding very powerful magical items in dungeons - dungeons which you do not even actually have to swing a single blow - you can just stealth through the entire dungeon pickpocketing all the enemies and looting all the chests. Getting decent magical items is critical to boosting your melee effectiveness.
Bigger weapons may do more damage but smaller ones swing faster, if you have a magical effect on a dagger you fire all the charges off very quickly.
Max speed and agility first, then strength then endurance. Blade(or your other combat skill) and stealth are probably the most important skills to max first, then light armour followed by block(get to over 50%) and armourcraft (to 75% skill). |
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Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:00 am |
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