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ButtOfMalmsey
Village Idiot
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 785
Location: Mississippi |
quote:
Originally posted by DzD
quote:
Originally posted by ButtOfMalmsey
quote:
Originally posted by DzD
quote:
Originally posted by ButtOfMalmsey
For a kid without a job to steal games is one thing
So it's ok for me and every other kid I know to steal games? No offense, just wondering, since I'm a kid. Or maybe you should rewrite that. 
No, it's certainly not OK. But in most countries you have to be 14 years old to be criminally liable for felonies. So it's irrelevant. 
And there is your lesson on the criminal law.
Well, if my littlebrother do it then? He is 11.
No. I don't care how old you are. Software piracy is wrong.
_________________
"It has been a grand journey- well-worth making once."
-Winston Churchill, 1965, on Life
I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to SPEED around a city, keeping its SPEED over fifty, and if its SPEED dropped, it would explode. I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."
-Homer Simpson
=Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Member of The Sixth House=
::Captain of the Black Company:: |
Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:16 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
Then define what you mean with "For a kid without a job to steal games is one thing."
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:43 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
He means that it is understandable that a child would steal when they have no money. They supposedly do not know any better and will grow out of it hopefully. This does not make it right.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:48 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
Ahh... got it!
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:52 pm |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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I have a question for those of you who so seem to lothe the idea of piracy.
Would "pirating" be the same to you as say stealing clothes from a department store???
and let me make something clear piracy is term coined by the game industry. I seem to recall old warnings about piracy saying that even loaning a game to a friend would be considered piracy.  I suppose loaning a book to a friend would be piracy also.
So what the game industry says is of course gospel to all you folks.
It's funny I borrow a game from a friend. I like the game so I make a copy.
I don`t really consider that stealing or piracy. What it amounts to is basically simliar to making a photocopy of a book in my humble opinon.
And please in the interest of intelligent discourse explain to me how making a copy of a game is different from making a copy of a book IN THE MOST BASIC SENSE. The difference I see is in one hand the publisher has no problem with that and in the other the game industry tells us this is wrong.
If I am thief so be it. However I don`t really consider copying a game an act of theft. I will feel no guilt or remorse. I think it's a joke if you call a person who steals a car a thief and a person who copies a game a thief also. What this tells me is some of you don`t really understand crime. Or perhaps I don`t
Truth is I`m not taking something from anyone my friend paid for the game I make a copy of it. The game company made their profit off the game, no one stole their game. That is the truth in the most basic sense.
Though once I WILL SAY that if a person downloads a game off the internet that is an ENTIRELY different matter, and I for one would be behind stopping such action.
also my insulters I am aware of the economic costs of piracy, it theoritally causes game industries loss of profit. Though I would venture to say current that loss is marginal.
I see a danger though if many people downloaded games illegally off the internet now that is a problem, and rather you believe me not that something I would not do, though I expect to be told I would and am a liar yet more insults...
It's also amusing to see some of you resort to childish name calling. Yes I certainly am a theif and a kid reminds of grade school 
Heres an idea instead of calling people names come up with an intelligent agruement. Base your ideas on reason any of you name callers out there hear of man named Socrates? that my friends is how to argue. Tell me why I am wrong give me reasons. Maybe you can change my mind.
You people make too many assumptions none of you know me so please don`t tell me what my behavior is going to be and what I think.
I seem to see a lack of class or sportsmanship even when I ceded I was perhaps a bit incorrect in a statement I am attacked 
Sadly I find there 2 types of people those who are willing to change their opinon or at least Civily dicuss a topic with the other side. And those who are basically ideologues and will hear no other opinons execpt their own anything else is wrong and should be attacked and villifiyed
Seems most of you here fall under the second type.
That said this discussion goes nowhere.
therefore I offer a truce I`m tired of being attacked merely because my opinon is different then others.
I hope those here will be willing to accept this geture I feel as though am the enemy here simply because I have different opinon. |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:26 pm |
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Jericho
Chicken?
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 1535
Location: Toontown with the SANDY BEACHES |
Well, I don't actually think publishers say that it is ok to photocopy their books.. and besides a copy of a book isn't the same thing as reading a book.. if it is so, that some publisher says its ok making a copy of a book it would be like a game-company saying its ok for you to copy our game but only if you play it on a pentium 70 mhz with 32 mb ram! So you lose the quality and feel of playing this game.
I don't know what laws you have where you live but in Sweden you are allowed to make copies of your cds and give to your friends. you can charge them for the price of an empty cd but not more.. Now, I think that law only applies to music-cds but I'm not sure.. What I'm saying is that you might want to check up what the law really is saying where you live.
IMO pirates is commonly a word used for people who sell illegal software to make money.. and apparently they are doing pretty good money.. and that is what pisses me off.. some people don't know that what they buy is illegal. most of them do but they don't care since it is cheaper. IMHO sharing to your friends is not that bad according to me that is.. I know if a friend of mine came and asked if he could borrow a game from me I wouldn't tell him "No. you go and buy the game you cheap pirate!" .. so I will not expect others to be able to say that.
_________________
Never argue with the insane. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
And according to Lintra it is contagious
Quote from Val to Jericho: "You're an evil little cat, you know that."
Quote from Dhruin: "*Sigh* If only I was as perfect as Jericho"
Quote from Mr Roach: "We all wish we were perfect as Jericho" |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:06 pm |
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ButtOfMalmsey
Village Idiot
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 785
Location: Mississippi |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerad
I have a question for those of you who so seem to lothe the idea of piracy.
Would "pirating" be the same to you as say stealing clothes from a department store???
Yes.
quote:
and let me make something clear piracy is term coined by the game industry. I seem to recall old warnings about piracy saying that even loaning a game to a friend would be considered piracy. I suppose loaning a book to a friend would be piracy also.
No. But I have an idea. You go to law school and take a course on intellectual property, since I don't have time to teach a fool.
quote:
So what the game industry says is of course gospel to all you folks.
It's funny I borrow a game from a friend. I like the game so I make a copy.
I don`t really consider that stealing or piracy. What it amounts to is basically simliar to making a photocopy of a book in my humble opinon.
And please in the interest of intelligent discourse explain to me how making a copy of a game is different from making a copy of a book IN THE MOST BASIC SENSE. The difference I see is in one hand the publisher has no problem with that and in the other the game industry tells us this is wrong.
This displays not only your arrogance but also your ignorance. You are not allowed to copy books in their entirety. You may copy portions of books for academic purposes, or for criticism (what is called fair use). If you own a CD, or a game, you can make a copy for your own use, since you already paid for the intellectual property once.
quote:
If I am thief so be it. However I don`t really consider copying a game an act of theft. I will feel no guilt or remorse. I think it's a joke if you call a person who steals a car a thief and a person who copies a game a thief also. What this tells me is some of you don`t really understand crime. Or perhaps I don`t
Truth is I`m not taking something from anyone my friend paid for the game I make a copy of it. The game company made their profit off the game, no one stole their game. That is the truth in the most basic sense.
Though once I WILL SAY that if a person downloads a game off the internet that is an ENTIRELY different matter, and I for one would be behind stopping such action.
also my insulters I am aware of the economic costs of piracy, it theoritally causes game industries loss of profit. Though I would venture to say current that loss is marginal.
I see a danger though if many people downloaded games illegally off the internet now that is a problem, and rather you believe me not that something I would not do, though I expect to be told I would and am a liar yet more insults...
It's also amusing to see some of you resort to childish name calling. Yes I certainly am a theif and a kid reminds of grade school
Heres an idea instead of calling people names come up with an intelligent agruement. Base your ideas on reason any of you name callers out there hear of man named Socrates? that my friends is how to argue. Tell me why I am wrong give me reasons. Maybe you can change my mind.
I'm not interested in changing your mind. However, if you're ever in Mississippi and need a good lawyer (something your obvious contempt for the law indicates is a good possibility) don't hesitate to PM me on this board.
quote:
You people make too many assumptions none of you know me so please don`t tell me what my behavior is going to be and what I think.
I seem to see a lack of class or sportsmanship even when I ceded I was perhaps a bit incorrect in a statement I am attacked
Sadly I find there 2 types of people those who are willing to change their opinon or at least Civily dicuss a topic with the other side. And those who are basically ideologues and will hear no other opinons execpt their own anything else is wrong and should be attacked and villifiyed
Seems most of you here fall under the second type.
That said this discussion goes nowhere.
therefore I offer a truce I`m tired of being attacked merely because my opinon is different then others.
I hope those here will be willing to accept this geture I feel as though am the enemy here simply because I have different opinon.
You're being attacked because you're a jack*** who breaks the law and then tells everybody about it. You have no right to vet my opinion; I don't have to know any more about you than you've posted on this board to reach the conclusion that you enjoy stealing games, and will continue to do it. If you don't want us to judge you by your actions, then don't tell us about them. Otherwise, you can complain all you want, but no one will take you seriously.
_________________
"It has been a grand journey- well-worth making once."
-Winston Churchill, 1965, on Life
I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to SPEED around a city, keeping its SPEED over fifty, and if its SPEED dropped, it would explode. I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."
-Homer Simpson
=Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Member of The Sixth House=
::Captain of the Black Company:: |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:42 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
I guess maybe the fact that there is not a physical object being actually taken from a premises, makes it feel like there isnt anything stolen. As I said earlier, people arent going to just sit by and let their products be stolen. You best get all you can now, because eventually it will not be possible methinks. The photocopy thing is pretty funny. A photocopy of a picture does not allow you to choose a fighter, theif (hehe), wizard, etc, and lead them thru a fantasy adventure. I cant remember the last time i used a photocopy to deathmatch online. It is, for legal purrposes, an object. What about doing that with a $2,000.00 architectural program? ='.'=
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:12 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@Malmsey: Ditto
@Gerad: I suggest you actually study copyright law before making such ignorant statements. Start here
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:09 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
ok..ive seen enough "piracy" bashing and ive had enough of it.....IT IS NOT THEFT! example: let's say you see a recipie book..it has a recipie on bread...it's good...you let someone in on the recipie....is that theft! no, that's just kindess? what if you change it slightly? once again, in the mind of the self rightous anti pirates, that's illegal!! or if you have a large party and put on a movie...public viewing! illegal! idiocy! also...theft is more of an actuall taking of a product...lets say we have a car for sale.....someone takes some futureistic copying device to it and copies it and drives away the copy...THAT CAR IS STILL ON SALE! now, if someone actually stole the car so it couldn't be sold, yea, that's theft. Also, like mentioned before, some of us simply dont have the money for a game...we would not have purchased it anyway (and if the only alternative would be to buy it, i wouldn't be playing games, or have one game a year, that simple) i can play multiplayer with a key generator....more players = enhanced online expirence for both paying and non-paying customers. Also, now to the issue that it's immoral...we are not all christians! moral is a relative concept...actually stealing physical properity is immoral to me...womanizing, acting like an ape unable to control their instinct is also in the same category...so to all those self rightous ppl who think they're better than everyone becuase they "buy" everything, you can keep you morals..piracy has been in the industry since it's inception...it will NEVER go away, no matter how hard one may try and how many dollars are wasted on it. so all of the anti pirates, go and enjoy spending your rich assets on games, and ill be questing with ye online....we will both be enjoying some great games (also, if a company dies...several take it's place...thus it has always been) |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:11 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
also, one point i forgot to add is this....what about buying used games from ebay or EB? the company made the money off of ONE user, yet it could potentially be resold again and again..isn't that the same as a copy given to a friend? the only diff is that the origional owner doesn't have a copy? so what? the company still doesn't get the profit from the aditional sales.....just some food for thought.... |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:17 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
I'm not that into the law, so I don't know what is says about this. But, let me just remind you that, we didn't create the law. I'm sure that if you read every law about piracy, you will find out that the law says that it is theft.
Copying games, is the same as, stealing something.
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:27 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Yet another ignorant individual who knows nothing about copyright law. I suggest you read that link I gave as well before openning your mouth again.
You don't have money? Cry me a river. Go get a job like respectable people.
If I find you online, I'll be more than happy to report you so your account is erased and your IP banned.
I don't have to be self-righteous, I have the law on my side. You don't.
Btw, there is an edit button, use it.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:30 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
ban me? for expressing my opinion in a public forum? What is the purpse of a public forum if one cannot share one's opinon? i was not be vulgar in any way....alas, i am aware completly that is against the law..which is my point...we need to make a movement, as a people, to get these facist policies removed from our goverment...i dont mean totall removal of copyright law, but MUCH revision is needed..as it stands, at some point or another, almost everyone has broke the law several times...ever record a fave song off the radio? record a tv show to watch later since your at work? and the issue like a job...i am a very "respectable" person, as you so eloquently put it..i am in college right now..but our economy and the fact that in my community there is rampant layoffs due to companys going to mexico for their operations hinders that somewhat... |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:37 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I didn't say ban you from this forum. I said if I found you online in a game that you pirated, I would report you to the company so they could ban you for stealing their property.
No, the laws do not need reformation. The laws are there to protect the intellectual property of those who create it. And they have every right to protect their property from thieves.
And again, you show your ingnorance of the law. I suggest you read up about fair use and what it really means.
You are not the only one in college right now. You are also not the only one who has been unemployeed before. My lack of sympathy for your criminal activities is completely justified.
Your attempts to justify your illegal actions are contemptible at best.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:48 pm |
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