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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
Ironman mode. I haven't heard any member on the developer team actually finished the game with Ironman mode. Initial reactions from people who tried it indeed seem very hard.
Well, i do like to see who on this board capable to finish off the game in this mode. Ironman mode will took too much time for me; i won't try it but instead go for normal mode, and playing with both good and evil alignment each once (that would be about 100 hours).
@The Hurricane
Nice to hear that. Which difficulty mode you using and how challenging. |
Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:52 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I'll give ironman mode a shot, though I certainly won't be basing the review on it... it will be touched on only at that point... an hour or two probably.
Ironman will probably be where I whip out the 5 Cleric Holy Beatdown party.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:42 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Based on only an hour or so with the Kazaa version...
The graphics blew me away. I was expecting some nice handpainted backdrops but ToEE looks superb from the flowing robes of my sorc (robes! cloaks!) to the swaying trees.
The screen is uncluttered and the radial menu is quite effective (mostly because they used words rather than just icons) although I do find my neck craning to read it at those angles.
The TB combat is (so far) outstanding. It's 15 years since I've played PnP D&D and our AD&D rules didn't have trips, AoO, charges etc etc. You really realise just how much changes to build a real-time (or phase-based) system like BG or NWN. The interface gives excellent feedback on where you can move to, areas of spell effects etc.
After so many years of the Infinity Engine and then NWN it does feel radically different and that will take getting used to. I have the feeling it will be a hit with RPGers but won't gain the widespread appeal of BG/2. |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:29 am |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
[quote="Dhruin"]Based on only an hour or so with the Kazaa version...[quote]
Tell me, how this Kazaa version works? You have a limited play time I heard. What is the price for the key to this version then? Is it a full version with just missing key?
Anyway, I think I'll buy boxed version, for I love printed manuals and nice big boxes on my shelf 
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:10 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I would have to agree. I'm playing the kazaa version while waiting for our review copy and everything seems beautifully integrated so far. You can tell this is a single player game, though, just from character generation.
I rolled 12 times and ended up with a monk with three 17s and three 16s. There's nary a DM alive who would let you get away with that in pen and paper.
Or a paladin with two 18s.
In any case... yes, the graphics are small but incredibly detailed. Except for the character sprites, which could use some work. Still, they're very well animated and since you can't zoom in on them they are defined by their clothing... and their clothing is, very much, 'RObes! Cloaks!". Very nice.
Fun watching my monk end up flat on his face from a failed trip attack against a farmer. Damned '1's. I'm loving the ability to click on any roll and see what it was. It doesn't change the fact you missed, failed a save, etc... but it's cool to see all the bonuses flying around.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:11 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
@stanthony - the Kazaa thing is pretty straight forward. It's an enormous 800Mb+ download but I was impatient to play it and dvdboxoffice haven't shipped my copy yet *sigh*.
It just installs like the normal version (including a full pdf manual) but when you start it up there's a sort of pop-up window that that shows how much time is left and click here to buy or click there to continue the trial. The purchase is full retail - US$49.99 - a bit steep without the printed manual IMO.
The Kazaa trial has no videos or music (and I miss the music) but is otherwise complete AFAIK. If you pay for the Kazaa version you get to download the music and videos (400Mb I've heard). I'm almost tempted to just pay for it but I'd really miss the proper manual but it does make an excellent demo.
Some further comments...
Boy do I need to read the manual! I can't get archers to hit anything but it appears that may be because if you fire an arrow from behind another character (and archers are usually at the rear) you get -8 unless you have Precise Shot. Xen can probably correct the details but the point is you really have to know what you're doing to get the most out of this game - it's nothing like every recent D&D title. This is a good thing but it'll scare casual players big time.
Once I get the hang of these details, combat will be the most detailed, tactical D&D CRPG experience ever.
On the other hand, some of the dialogue sucks. I'm sorry to be so blunt but some of it is pathetic. It may not be representative of the whole game because I've played so little.
I've talked to NPCs who assume I know another NPC I've never heard of. I've had dialogue options that say 'tell me more about the blah blah wood' when noone ever mentioned it. Otherwise some of the conversations just sound unnatural.
At this point (and it's early days) I'm thinking that it will be an excellent tactical combat game - sort of a D&D Jagged Alliance but it won't inspire you with a great story. Now I know ToEE wasn't a great story module - I played it - but I did think Tim Cain's crew would write some good dialogue.
Anyway...still having great fun but they've missed the mark in a few early areas. |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:55 am |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
I got the game yesterday, I plaed through the tutorial and a few hours of regular game play. Most of my regular play time was making characters, it was great to see so many options of feats and skills to manage. Combat so far is the best feature, combat is smooth, yet it has loads of options that can be easly accessed. Some of the voice overs are realy sad though. Overall looks like a great game.
LB |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:50 am |
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oozle
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 112
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I have just one question - how does it compare to Baldur's Gate 2 in terms of:
gfx
gameplay
longetivity
depth
interactivity
gameworld? |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:01 am |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
quote:
Originally posted by oozle
I have just one question - how does it compare to Baldur's Gate 2 in terms of:
gfx
gameplay
longetivity
depth
interactivity
gameworld?
Well, I must say that both BG2 and ToEE are very good games, but both are very different beasts.
gfx - ToEE excels here. ToEE and BG have the same isometric view, however unlike BG2 which had mostly static backgrounds (the oil painting effect) ToEE has particles galore. You see trees shaking, smoke pouring out of chimneys, and fireplaces blazing with great particle effects. Add that with AA and geometric shadows = superb. Oh, and the animations are excellent, excellent, excellent. In addition, ToEE supports many resolutions that BG2 did not. I personally like 800x600x32... I find it to be a system hog on higher resolutions. ...and I'll also add that I think highly of the music, reminds me of Fallout for some reason.
gameplay - Obviously quite different. The 3.5 rules set is quite superior than BG2's 2E. The inclusion of feats, skills, domains, etc. give you more options than ever before for your characters. ToEE also has a more humble beginning as you start at level one. Then there's the turn-based combat which I think is more rewarding than infinity engine's "pause" feature.
longevity - ToEE promises 40 hours the first time through with three different endings for the different party alignments. Someone like me could play this game 3-4 times and not get bored. (even though time prevents that goal) That's me, but 40hrs is not bad considering you only play once.
Depth - I've found depth throughout the whole game so far....I would say that it is at least equal to BG2, but that could be the initial "the game is so awesome" nostalgia speaking.
Interactivity - There's obviously more NPCs in BG2, but interactions with NPCs is different in ToEE. BG2 gave you 4 to 5 responses to each question/response, but ToEE normally gives you 2. However, there's more to take into account. Your interactions with NPCs will change depending on certain skills like bluff, intimidate, diplomacy. Skills like "sense motive" which will raise your ability to catch NPCs in the art of lying. Plus, dialog may change if you're drunk, naked, or have an Intelligence of nine or below.
Gameworld - ToEE is set in Greyhawk. There's Homlett and its outlying lands....and then there's the temple of elemental evil. BG2 has more variety, but I've yet to feel contained.
ToEE is awesome and I would definitely recommend it if you enjoyed BG2. However, whether it can equal or surpass BG2....well, I'd have to finish it and then give it a few months.
@ Remus
I'm playing normal mode right, and glad of it. I'd been toasted a few times over if I was playing iron mode. It would take someone sick like Xen to beat this game hard-core. I can't wait to play Iron though, creating PC by the hundred load....good times. 
@ Xen
I once got four 17s, the sad thing is if you click the advanced tab you only get 25 points to divide up. Iron mode only allows one roll of the dice so maybe that tab will come in handy...
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =
"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..."
Last edited by The Hurricane on Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:37 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Some of these are hard to answer...
Graphics - beats any Infinity Engine game to a pulp and then jumps up and down on the bloody corpse. Excellent backgrounds with butterflies and trees swaying. Robes flutter (robes!), excellent animations etc.
Gameplay - too broad to answer well. The combat is outstanding (provided you don't mind TB) but to get the best out of it you'll need to learn the rules more than you ever did for BG. Much more detailed D&D conversion with lots more feats and fairly accurate combat conversion. You'll realise just how bastardised the IE combat is (not to say it can't be fun but it's way off representing real D&D play).
But...so far the dialogue is pretty ordinary so the story elements aren't as good as BG. This will be a matter of taste - remember ToEE is a dungeon crawl not an epic story involving demi-gods like BG/BG2.
Longevity - haven't a clue but the reports are it's fairly long plus there's multiple starts and endings.
Interactivity - I'm not sure BG was all that interactive...was it?
Gameworld - I think BG has a bit of a head start because it tells an epic story that spans the Sword Coast. ToEE is a very good dungeon crawl.
I'd say if the idea of TB combat gives you a rush - go and get it now. If you don't like combat-heavy games or turn-based is a turn-off, it might not be for you. |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:47 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
Gameplay - too broad to answer well. The combat is outstanding (provided you don't mind TB) but to get the best out of it you'll need to learn the rules more than you ever did for BG. Much more detailed D&D conversion with lots more feats and fairly accurate combat conversion. You'll realise just how bastardised the IE combat is (not to say it can't be fun but it's way off representing real D&D play).
With what I have played, I completely agree with you. I will find it alittle tougher to play BG after this game, BG2 has plenty of high level spells to make up for shallow combat.
LB |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:55 pm |
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pakaraatzi
Counselor of the King
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 359
Location: Ontario, Canada |
I'd love to get the game, but I rarely play a SP CRPG more then once, and I've never played a D&D game more then that. Right now I just can't convince myself to spend $80 for a once through game, even one I'd most likely enjoy during that one time.
I guess I'll wait until it goes down in price (which will probably take years) sadly though by then someone will most likely have DLed and burnt me a copy, and I'll end up just using that, never getting around to buying it.
Hopfully people will find it's worth atleast a couple of replays though, I really love the D&D game manuals.
_________________
~ woooozle! ~ |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:29 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
My short impression of the game, quoting myself from somewhere else:
quote:
Several hours into game, and indeed many bugs exist. While no huge bugs that breaking the game apart, the relative game stability, the interface inconsistency, minor rule set bugs, etc - are well of capable of dragging down your enjoyment of this game.
Maybe i am too optimistic about this game. I'm lowering my score for this game from 80-90% to 75-85%. Sorry Tim Cain   . However, at least this game is better than the half-assed Lionheart.
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Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:09 pm |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Yes, I agree Remus. My verdict would be around 80-85%, but for casual gamers I'd lower the final score about 10%. Too many bugs and it is a shame. Example - Yesterday, I gained enough exp. to advance my monk to second level, but during the process I had to chose an extra class bonus feat. However, I chose two class feats at level one and no options were highlighted. I couldn't choose a feat and the leveling process wouldn't finish. I could multi-class but ultimately I scraped the party and started over. Hopefully a patch is on the horizon, because this game is great fun. I'd still say it's the second best game of the year...with KoTOR being thee best. In closing, I think Troika succeeded on many levels with ToEE.
EDIT: ...and goodberry annoys me. Even though they're a parishable item the berries do not leave your inventory after use, and you always get five of them not 2d8. 
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =
"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..." |
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Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:21 pm |
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