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HoLoPo1nT
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
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| Gothic 2>>> Bad Reviews and Comparisons?? |
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Hello there folks, I am fairly new to these forums but have been playing RPG's (both computer and PnP) for a few decades and have quite a lot of experience with them. One of my favorite series is The Elder Scrolls and I'm really looking forward to Oblivion (and truly hoping it comes out soon soon SOON!!  ).
I recently picked up Gothic 2 Gold without having previously read any reviews of the game/expansion and I'm sure glad I went into the purchase blindly (which is not normal for me) because the reviews of the game that I've read are terrible for the most part and probably would have detered me from buying it.
I've played through Gothic 2 without the expansion and really liked it...then I added the expansion on and am playing through it again, back to back so to speak. I think it's great and I also think that many reviewers are just not hardcore enough to really appreciate how the mechanics of the game have been calibrated by the devs.
One of the main points I see so often in these bad reviews is criticism of the interface...I keep reading how horrible it is and what a bad time the poor reviewers are having with it and I'm like WTH...the interface is fine without the mouse pointer and the only things you have to scroll through are your inventory, dialogue options and log entries...it's not that tough!!
The next point that is always brought up is the combat control scheme. I have to admit that I was a bit frustrated by it at first but once you get a sense of timing:skill%, how to perform combo moves and get acquainted with each creature types combat styles IT'S A HECK OF A LOT OF FUN!! It takes time and practice but once you get it it's very rewarding
The first time I took out a team of 3 Orc Warriors and 2 Orc Elites I was literally cheering at my laptops screen!!
The bad reviews almost always mention the fact that you "can't hotkey potions" which is true the way the game initially comes configured but YOU CAN HOTKEY POTIONS if you do a small amount of internet research and read up on tweaking the games .ini file.
Also, attempting to compare Gothic 2 with TES:Morrowind(which I see many trying to do on forum posts) is certainly viable seeing as they are both (at least in my estimation) amongst the top ten CRPG titles of all time but that is where the comparison generally ends imho. It's like comparing The Lord of The Rings and The Chronicles of the Black Company...or The Wheel of Time and The Chronicle of Thomas Covenant...classics of the genre that stand on their own as unique or ground-breaking titles.
Anyways, it's unfortunate that journalists with ADHD are allowed to review CRPGs, especially ones that take time and practice to become proficient at and truly enjoy. Gothic 2 Gold is deep, rich and satisfying on many levels and although I believe (and cherish the fact) that everyone is entitled to their own opinion I also think that a published opinion such as a game review should be well researched before offered up for public consumption.
Thanks,
HoLoPo1nT |
Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:55 pm |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
Most reviewers seem to think that using more than one key or mouse-button at the same time is clumsy and awkward. Of course the interface isn't the best, but for me it's not a problem. You get used to it pretty fast.
Fighting? It's no click-to-death, so it's bad. That seems to be the point of view of many reviewers. When you've played Severance, you'd recognise that this is in fact very easy and still fun. Not to mention that you can turn Gothic 1 controls off (it's usually activated). Without the Gothic 1 controls you only need to click with your mouse-button in the right tempo to make the combo. I found that out yesterday after playing the game for more than three days. 
quote:
Originally posted by HoLoPo1nT
are just not hardcore enough
You're forgetting that most gamers aren't hardcore either. The people that bring in the money will throw Gothic 2 Gold away, because they find it to hard. And I think that when you play it without having played the original G2 or G1 it is too hard indeed.
The problem with the gold edition is that it is for hardcore fans and not for casual gamers. The difficulty level together with the unusual controls and interface scares people off.
Fortunately we know better. 
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
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-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:02 am |
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Gotit
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
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I play an average of 3 games per year, at best it's more often 1 if not none, I am a crap at videogames, am I a hardcore gamer? I don't think so and I enjoyed Gothic 2+NOTR.
That said I agree that the beginning should have been more easy and the interface is a wrong choice to be sure to set up an immediate appeal to most.
But well I won't be surprised that there was few unconcsious displaced patriotic feeling hidden inside some of those reviewer.
Morrowind begining is a lot more difficult and quite repulsive and I dont remind me it gots so many bad reviews. Ha well the house that build it had already a name so reviewer get as chimps when it was about reviewing it. |
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Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:40 pm |
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MikeJW
Village Dweller
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 14
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I honestly think reviewers only play an hour or an hour and a half. Theres a few sites I respect for reviews but I mostly pay attention to player/customer reviews. Its amazing how different they can be. |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:48 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
The typical reader doesn´t want to hear it, but of course most reviewers only play for a few hours. If a professional reviewer gets a 48 hour deadline and 100$ for a review plus screenshots there´s only so much time he can spend on actually playing the game.
The problems with the Gothics were, IMHO:
-the interface is not mainstream enough
-they didn´t optimize it enough. They should have spent more resources on it.
-the difficulty level of TNotR is too high.
-the documentation sucks. A tricky interface is one thing, not explaining it another.
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:15 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
-the interface is not mainstream enough
What do you mean with that exactly? That it wasn't like other games? Or?
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
-the documentation sucks. A tricky interface is one thing, not explaining it another.
Like not mentioning you need to press [Enter] when you want to become human again after using a transformation scroll. 
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:42 am |
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
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I've said it in other threads so I'll repeat it here: I like the Gothic series BECAUSE of the controls. It is not some lameass clickety click game.....skill is rewarded.
When I first played Gothic I fell right in step with the controls. And I saw the brilliance of PB for using this system. Sure the game was a challenge and I cursed my monitor many times......but the game made me think, not simply click my way to ingame glory.
Most of the games mentioned in this type thread are boring. You can't get in over your head. The games hold your hand and let you clickety click your way to Uber character...........BORING!!!!
_________________
Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World. |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:54 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
One thing is hopefully better in Gothic 3 and that is the fighting with a mage.
To fire a spell you need to press both [LMB] and [up], which limits your movement as a mage. My brother came to me with Fable: TLC (yes, I know), but the mage is awesome in it. You can move freely while firing massive balls of fire or chain lightning. This makes the mage a lot less vulnerable.
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:30 am |
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VPeric
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 418
Location: Serbia |
Maybe it is so in Fable, but mages usually don't move around that much, as supported by "Would you be able to concentrate on casting a spell if you had to run around too?". They don't move when casting in, for example, DnD either. <shrug>
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:24 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
I'd rather have a rough diamond than a polished turd. Gothic is a rough diamond.
A lot of people might be fooled into thinking the polished turd is special and worth something, but the people who really know what they are talking about can see that its not worth anything and the rough diamond has the real value.
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:52 pm |
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
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quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
I'd rather have a rough diamond than a polished turd. Gothic is a rough diamond.
The folks from Elder Scrolls have been buffing their turd for years and the gameplay can't touch ANY of the Gothic games. But unfortunately they have the PR budget and a sh1tload of toadies to review/admire the highgloss of each turd they pass.
Burn this into your memory: If you are clickety clicking it ain't a game....it is a poorly made movie.
_________________
Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World. |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:20 pm |
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Lantra
Village Dweller
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Hyjal Realm |
| Re: Gothic 2>>> Bad Reviews and Comparisons?? |
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quote:
Originally posted by HoLoPo1nT
anyways, it's unfortunate that journalists with ADHD are allowed to review CRPGs, especially ones that take time and practice to become proficient at and truly enjoy.
What exactly are you saying aobut people with ADHD 
see i have ADHD and the problem is i OVERFOCUS on games and play them for hours and forgot about the other things its obvious its people like my dad who make those reviews who have better things to do.
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Me: HOW DARE YOU DISOBEY ME WORM
Aarain: *subject begans to drool* |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:12 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
I think he actually meant ADD.
Anyway, I thought Lintra liked Gothic?
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:30 pm |
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Lantra
Village Dweller
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Hyjal Realm |
quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
I think he actually meant ADD.
Anyway, I thought Lintra liked Gothic?
1. ADD and ADHD have the same effects and
Dad one likes gothic but he has better things to do than spend six hours in front of a computer screen playing gothic though he may want to...
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Me: HOW DARE YOU DISOBEY ME WORM
Aarain: *subject begans to drool* |
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Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:24 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
quote:
Originally posted by Lantra
1. ADD and ADHD have the same effects
Not entirely true my hyperactive friend.
ADD is just attention defecit disorder, where you cannot concentrate on or stay interested in something for any long period of time.
ADHD is ADD where hyperactivity is present.
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:55 pm |
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