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Jabberwhacky
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 53
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Gothic is a very good game, but it's not real deep. The skills are shabby, money is useless, killing people has no repercussions, and the story is pretty weak. So this is my little list of stuff I think would make gothic 2 the best game of all time (barring Secret of Mana):
1. Factions - I've killed everyone who is not invincible in every camp and never once has someone attacked me who didn't see me do it. I cleared the entire cave area in new camp from Lee to Lares to Saturas and only a few people tried to help (only because they saw me do it). I want to become KoS damnit, I killed all of their leaders and yet I can still buy armor from them.
2. Money - By level 12 I had 20k ore, and by lvl 20 I had 60k. The only time I EVER used it was to buy armor from gomez, and then later to buy guards armor. That's IT!! The rest of the time I traded crap (I saved all my food, and every single weapon that dropped I picked up). By the endgame, I also had over 3000 potions of various sorts, because I killed all the merchants (Cronos, the potion seller near Saturas, the Baal guy below Templar trainer, and one in the old camp). That was pretty lame, but more of a faction problem, although I did like how I could kill merchants to get their stuff, I wasn't forced to buy it.
3. Equipment - I can deal with the one piece armor suits, but seriously, give us helmets and shields!! I hated how ugly this guy was, with his nasty pony tale, and I really think the ore armor would look wicked with a scary skeleton helm over it. The fact that the highest damage 1h weapon was 65 was gay too. Sure 2h do more damage, but at least give us the *choice* between 1 and 2h, don't force us down the latter.
4. Skills - Sneaking and pickpocketing are worthless. Magic is worthless if you kill the merchants (so you have a shit load of scrolls, like I did). However, acrobatics was one of my favorite skills. Going down a hill you go MUCH faster if you dive/jump down it instead of just running. And being able to jump off ladders 2/3 of the way down saves a few precious seconds. Also lame how you can master 1h sword by lvl 3. They need more steps on your way to mastery, or at least spaced out more.
5. Combat - I didn't like the combat system very much. I HATED, abso-frickin-lutely HATED how much some guys just absorb your swing. I'm a god damned master in 2h using the frickin uberest of uber swords and these skeletons just bounce off. They don't even parry, just bounce. WTF is that? They need to crumble to my fiersome blade and whatnot. Also got irritating when fighting humans, when you knocked one down and tried to select another, but were still locked on the corpse of the first (because he was only knocked out, not dead).
6. Story - It started off OK, but the ending was laaaame, and towards the end it was just ghetto. It was really, really linear, and the only sub quests in the game were at the very beginning, and those were only to augment the main quest. I addressed this in another post of mine so it's pretty much been said.
7. Party system - This sucks, so very much. Using pets does not work, I only bring them out to kill em for exp (which works very well, golems give 1k, demons 500, skeles around 2-350, and they don't fight back). Gorn is just a retard; he can't get up ledges, and for half the level he's not even with you (referring to the mine) because he's stuck in some pit. I thought it was REALLY cheap how they show a guru with 2 templars behind him on the box, which makes it look like you get followers (and I always thought you did).
I think that's it; like I said, I liked this game, but with improvements it could be the best game ever. I actually never got any bugs, besides once when I fucked up a conversation and had to tab out (bring up inv), after which hitting ESC did nothing (so I couldn't save or quit). But that was the only time.
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 1:16 am |
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Chewriter
Village Leader
Joined: 24 Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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I agree with some of what you said, but not all. Just as a personal preference, I don't want to be dragging around followers all over the friggin' map. I like that most of them were temporary. The fact that Gorn's so touchy that he sometimes starts attacking you in the mine makes me glad he falls into a pit.
Helms night be cool, but I would like to be able to shave my head and get cool tats for my skull like the other Templar. Some sort of skin options when you progress through guilds would be good.
I loved the creatures of Gothic, and other than slightly improving distance perspectives during creature combat(Sometimes it looks like they're still in New Jersey yet they're biting you) I think it's one of the best features
I'm not into the guru/mage magic stuff all that much, so whether it's good or bad makes no difference to me. But for those that do, I can see that it might be less than stellar.
I do think that strength and dexterity should be considerably more significant to your abilities. A combination of skill, strength and dexterity would make it better. Right now I see dexterity and strength pretty much determining the weapon you can carry as opposed to how well you use it. And I NEVER got as fast as orcs at swinging my sword ( I know their's were all one-handed) I hated having to wait my turn to get my two swings while they swatted me ten or fifteen times.
I don't mind trading for goods, though more items should require you to pay with ore, and by a certain level, food is pointless to use because the bar doesn't move no matter how many weeds you shove down your throat
Skeletons don't bounce off hammers. Swords work well for cutting flesh, hammers work better at crushing bone.
I think the story and quests fell victim to getting to market before the money ran out.
I like many of your ideas, but differ when you say it would make the game the best ever, because even with the weaknesses, I think it's the best game of this type that has been made thus far
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 3:06 am |
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Jabberwhacky
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 53
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No doubt, of all the 3rd person RPG's out there, this is the best. I never thought about the fact that I was using a sword on the skeletons, but last time I checked, there were no 2H blunt items. There aren't even very many 2H axes, most of the stuff are swords. However, I think switching from a 120+30+30 damage sword to a measly 50 damage hammer is really pathetic. The sword is huge, it should be considered crushing damage...think about hitting bones with a very large sword, it's going to break them regardless of having a sharp edge.
My point about the food was that that's how I financed my early career...I didn't use ore, I used food. You can make some money when you have 200+ chunks of meat and a whole mess of vegetables.
Strength I saw no use, other than weapon-usage. Dexterity, however, makes a HUGE difference. I went from 24 dex to 80 some odd (I leveled a TON without training) and I went from missing 9/10 shots to hitting 9/10 shots, even from far away. I stayed at lvl 1 bow for both times, because I killed all the people who train in bow hehe.
Another thing about the combat that irked me, you kinda mentioned..only having a 2 hit combo with the 2h weapons. Gets really old to have to either swing twice and let go of the mouse (effectively re-targetting) or sit there "resting" for 2 seconds. That's part of the reason I wanted to stick with 1h, and in turn why I want shields and higher lvl 1 handed weapons. 65 is too low, and you only get that if you kill Lares (it's his weapon), 55 is the highest you can go by legit means (broadsword, fisk sells em, or at least drops em when killed heh). |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 3:48 am |
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Baalcipher
Humanoid Typhoon
Joined: 30 Dec 2001
Posts: 844
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA |
Adding to the Weapons suggestions:
There out to be a broader scope of weapons including far-reaching Halberds, spears and Flails(with real whipping action), including the ability to do combos with them.
Shields could disable parry, and counterattacks and increase defense.
The ability to smack someone off a cliff is always fun. Plus watching Lee get revenge on king Robar II would be nice as well... |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 3:57 am |
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Baalcipher
Humanoid Typhoon
Joined: 30 Dec 2001
Posts: 844
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA |
as far as the ease of robbery is concerned: Keeping the honors system is fine wth me. So what if you can knock out a merchant and take 100 sting maces and light crossbows. Just program the merchant to never sell to the player again (if he gets robbed). Also if there are any merchants in the general area, they should be informed about the player and run from him too.
That should deter from further robbery!!
and what the hell were the coins for? They were absolutely worthless!
But I kinda predict the coins might be useful outside the colony...
[ This Message was edited by: Baalcipher on 2001-12-30 22:04 ] |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 4:00 am |
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Chewriter
Village Leader
Joined: 24 Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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Yeah, you're right about the dexterity... I assumed it wasn't making a difference but you're right.
I'll concede our blunt weapon with uriziel Yeah, it should be crushing as well, and mood altering, and a large key for doors that won't open, and a building leveler. I wish I could swing that like a 1h. If you think about it, it only requires 30 strength to carry, which you'd think you should be able to swing it faster.
I discover the hammer by accident. I used the war hammer to kill the stone golem on the bridge to the focus stone with Lester, then forgot to switch back when I went to get the focus stone with Milten. The other times I'd gotten that focus, I let Milten kill all the skeletons(I know, how cowardly) But with the hammer, it didn't bounce off once, bone chips flew off after every stroke. I actually wept with joy.
So let's publish a list of improvements and have a sit down with Piranha Bytes.
My next mission is to get all those strength and dexterity goodies from the Sleeper's hall, use the cheat to get out, and kill all the living creatures in the colony. |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 4:06 am |
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Guest
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The next one needs mounts like horses or sumtin.
Also since I havent witnessed it,be able to attack multiple enemies with wide sword strikes instead of the targeted. |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:05 am |
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Baalcipher
Humanoid Typhoon
Joined: 30 Dec 2001
Posts: 844
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA |
Yeah plus the meelee targeting system is stil wacky |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:35 am |
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Chewriter
Village Leader
Joined: 24 Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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I like the mounts of somekind, great idea. And the multiple enemies you can hit with a sword swipe. Speaking of swords, since you can get all the elements of a sword, and the smith teaches you how, has anyone fashioned a weapon at the smithys?
And come on now, they should let us talk to the women, especially after we dispatch their "Owner".
Improve the killing as opposed to merely beating. When you have multiple foes you don't necessarily have time for the elaborate kill shot with the sword. I like the maneuver, but at the same time it has proven problematic in certain situations.
The other question I have is for we players. I prefer games where combat is with sword or bows or fists. I find I'm not all that thrilled with firearm weapons, games with machine guns and rocket launchers and lasers. Is anyone else like that, or does it matter to you?
Anonymous, why not register? |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:39 am |
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Baalcipher
Humanoid Typhoon
Joined: 30 Dec 2001
Posts: 844
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA |
Decapitation.
Discombobulation.
Gibs!!
IF they had some of those features, the sexism wouldnt even be a concern!! |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 6:46 am |
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Chewriter
Village Leader
Joined: 24 Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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True, about the sexism.
Great topic... Decapitation and sexism in videophiles. OMG it's becoming a chat room! |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 7:33 am |
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Jabberwhacky
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 53
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The thing is, I never robbed anyone, I murdered them. Mainly because they had so many items I would have to knock em out more than once to loot it all (since it cancels the inventory when they start to wake up).
Killing every living thing in the colony is OK, but it's not that great. I kept getting surprised at how many people there were though, I'd turn a corner and find a group of 10 peasants, when I thought I had killed everyone.
I like the ideas about the death blows...frankly, I'd like to see someone using Uriziel NOT kill someone, that would take major skeelz.
Sexism isn't that big of a deal, it *is* a prison colony after all. Think what would happen if 4 woman were sent in to some prison today (male prison of course). |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 8:42 pm |
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Brak
City Guard
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 146
Location: Tucson, AZ USA |
I just wanted to say that I am a bit of a powergamer myself so I do not plan on spending any skill points on thief skills. That having been said: the thief skills are only useless if you don't mind cheating or won't be using the thieving skills. Think about it, if you mess up picking a lock and reload using what you have learned to successfully pick the lock you are not role playing anymore. The character you are supposed to be roleplaying doesn't know that when he went left that he should have went right when you reload him back to the time before he did it. If you are willing to buy enough lockpicks that you break them and your character learns without reloading then you are not cheating and I suppose you could consider the lockpick skill useless if that's how you spend your ore, but you would have to spend a lot of ore on lockpicks or just not steal from chests. Personally I love to steal from chests and can't resist being a cheater in this regard. But I do wonder if everyone who says that lockpicking is a useless skill because "you can just save before doing the lockpick and reload" realizes that they are not roleplaying and are in fact cheating the game (and in some cases advising other people to cheat as well).
_________________
I have a magic toe-nail, I keep it on my foot
Brak |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:29 pm |
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Jabberwhacky
Head Merchant
Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 53
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I was never one to reload, mainly because it takes like 15 seconds on my comp, and that's 15 seconds of my precious time I could be using killing helpless citizens. I trained lockpick up to master, mainly because i broke so god damn many picks without it that high. However, sneaking and pickpocketing are really lame. I never once used sneaking (don't know what it's for) and you might as well just buy the item you want or knock the guy out and take it instead of trying to be all thiefy. |
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Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:58 pm |
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