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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| questions & quirkiness of Ultima X |
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1) First, did anyone felt something quirky/peculiar about the graphics in Ultima X?. Probably it's just me. Not that it isn't pretty enough, but as a FPS gamer/player of UT2003 (beside CRPGs), seeing Unreal [Warfare] engine graphics, its sytle and exaggerated features in an MMORPGs (or any CRPGs) without more modification just feel rather out of place for me. Some screeshots that i had seen at Gamespy even made me chuckled, e.g the two short and green colored creatures just look comical (funny) and cartoonish. I think they should make more modification for some uniqueness, or the feel of "Ultima" or "the world of Ultima." Maybe they just don't care, as in the Gamespy's previews said the developer "...eager to concentrate on content without wasting energy on technology...".
2) Since i am pretty oblivious to MMORPGs, the statements the game "is more like Diablo than Ultima Online, but with more depth, character development, and immersion" and "Big battles and lots of action are the name of the game" also made me curious. Is there also a division between hack & slash MMORPGs ("RPG-Lite") and MMORPGs that focus more on role-playing? Or maybe Ultima X will playing the role of Diablo as happened in single-player CRPGs few years ago - creating division (also among players) between traditional CRPGs (fallout, Ultima series) and action CRPGs (Diablo series, Dungeon Siege)?.
Carry on - your comment, opinion.... |
Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:06 pm |
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hollaholla
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 161
Location: at my computer desk!~ |
| Re: questions & quirkiness of Ultima X |
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quote:
Originally posted by Remus
1) First, did anyone felt something quirky/peculiar about the graphics in Ultima X?. Probably it's just me. Not that it isn't pretty enough, but as a FPS gamer/player of UT2003 (beside CRPGs), seeing Unreal [Warfare] engine graphics, its sytle and exaggerated features in an MMORPGs (or any CRPGs) without more modification just feel rather out of place for me. Some screeshots that i had seen at Gamespy even made me chuckled, e.g the two short and green colored creatures just look comical (funny) and cartoonish. I think they should make more modification for some uniqueness, or the feel of "Ultima" or "the world of Ultima." Maybe they just don't care, as in the Gamespy's previews said the developer "...eager to concentrate on content without wasting energy on technology...".
2) Since i am pretty oblivious to MMORPGs, the statements the game "is more like Diablo than Ultima Online, but with more depth, character development, and immersion" and "Big battles and lots of action are the name of the game" also made me curious. Is there also a division between hack & slash MMORPGs ("RPG-Lite") and MMORPGs that focus more on role-playing? Or maybe Ultima X will playing the role of Diablo as happened in single-player CRPGs few years ago - creating division (also among players) between traditional CRPGs (fallout, Ultima series) and action CRPGs (Diablo series, Dungeon Siege)?.
Carry on - your comment, opinion....
Remus..you raise some interesting points..to which I will address the graphics and to them I have always felt upon first seeing some of the 'hacked' renders/screenshots and then the footage from this weekend that they look great. While the cartoony effect is present- thats what I like. To me it should be fantasy- I don't want some dark game with not so pretty graphics to look at- so while they do focus on content as you quoted, I think that the graphics they provide are good and am looking forward to hearing more about it in the future... |
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Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:07 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I am going to repeat here what i wrote someplace else. I hope you dont mind:
OK, i can see why this game might be attractive to some players out there.
However:
1) No guild system? This means that they have alienated all established hardcore player guilds from even thinking about setting up in and paying for this game.
2) Single-player Ultima CRPG fans arent going to fall for this. I dont know how stupid these designers are, but I for one will never pay monthly for a single player experience. Not even. Not gonna happen.
3) Missing features isnt very competitive. Everquest 2 is far more attractive IMO. But that's just me. EQ2 (and a few other upcoming MMORPGs) have far more features and although I understand that this game might be specialized in quest variety, ect, like I said before, I am not going to pay monthly for a single-player experience. Forget it. This game is missing everything. Are they just trying to attract Ultima Online userbase and forget about everybody else? Probably not, but still: Why would I bother paying for this game when certain other MMORPGs will be a much better experience.
4) Action CRPGs. I am disappointed by how many of these are forthcoming at the exclusion of traditional CRPGs. It makes me mad!
5) This should have been a single-player game. I am not going to pay monthly for this. I probably wont even play it. There are much better games to play. Sorry!
Warning: everything above this line is solely my opinion......
update: OK, the graphics arent that great. Maybe you want to play in cartoon-land but i dont, which is the reason i quit beta for a certain game which had cartoony-like graphics; i would rather be immersed in a realistic world. Thats what immersion means, and for me at least, UltimaX just doesnt cut it. And they havent used that engine up to its full potential -- i played that unreal 2 game and its obvious that they didnt do very well with it. Clearly, graphics-quality is a lagged-out issue for this group of developers, pun intended. Sorry! They didnt sell it to me, at least. Im not going to buy myself a subscription-based single-player game. Not gonna happen. |
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Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:47 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
| Re: questions & quirkiness of Ultima X |
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quote:
Originally posted by Remus
1) First, did anyone felt something quirky/peculiar about the graphics in Ultima X? ...
2) ... Is there also a division between hack & slash MMORPGs ("RPG-Lite") and MMORPGs that focus more on role-playing? Or maybe Ultima X will playing the role of Diablo as happened in single-player CRPGs few years ago - creating division (also among players) between traditional CRPGs (fallout, Ultima series) and action CRPGs (Diablo series, Dungeon Siege)?
1) Yeah.
2) Not currently, but there will be soon, starting with this game. |
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Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:05 pm |
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hollaholla
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 161
Location: at my computer desk!~ |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
I am going to repeat here what i wrote someplace else. I hope you dont mind:
OK, i can see why this game might be attractive to some players out there.
However:
1) No guild system? This means that they have alienated all established hardcore player guilds from even thinking about setting up in and paying for this game.
2) Single-player Ultima CRPG fans arent going to fall for this. I dont know how stupid these designers are, but I for one will never pay monthly for a single player experience. Not even. Not gonna happen.
3) Missing features isnt very competitive. Everquest 2 is far more attractive IMO. But that's just me. EQ2 (and a few other upcoming MMORPGs) have far more features and although I understand that this game might be specialized in quest variety, ect, like I said before, I am not going to pay monthly for a single-player experience. Forget it. This game is missing everything. Are they just trying to attract Ultima Online userbase and forget about everybody else? Probably not, but still: Why would I bother paying for this game when certain other MMORPGs will be a much better experience.
4) Action CRPGs. I am disappointed by how many of these are forthcoming at the exclusion of traditional CRPGs. It makes me mad!
5) This should have been a single-player game. I am not going to pay monthly for this. I probably wont even play it. There are much better games to play. Sorry!
Warning: everything above this line is solely my opinion......
update: OK, the graphics arent that great. Maybe you want to play in cartoon-land but i dont, which is the reason i quit beta for a certain game which had cartoony-like graphics; i would rather be immersed in a realistic world. Thats what immersion means, and for me at least, UltimaX just doesnt cut it. And they havent used that engine up to its full potential -- i played that unreal 2 game and its obvious that they didnt do very well with it. Clearly, graphics-quality is a lagged-out issue for this group of developers, pun intended. Sorry! They didnt sell it to me, at least. Im not going to buy myself a subscription-based single-player game. Not gonna happen.
Hey Ammon, I know that I differ from your viewpoint that I do want to play the game, but in all fairness I am curious about what you think would make the game playable- I mean I see that you don't like the option of no guilds and don't like the graphics and don't think that the Ultima CRPG players will play it- but what do you think would make them play it? Would it be playable when, and I know I read this somewhere, they put in the expansion pack with Houses? Because I for one, think that will make the game more dyanimic then...so seriously, just for kicks and giggles....what would it be? |
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Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:14 pm |
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hollaholla
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 161
Location: at my computer desk!~ |
And also I also wanted to ask...just where did you see that it said no guilds....one of the reviews that I read mentioned that guilds will love the game..just curious cause I want to get my facts straight?
http://www.gamewatchers.net/displayarticle.php?article=99
"This game should appeal to a much broader audience then the other MMOGs on the market, and with great results. Dungeon crawlers will love this game, guilds will love this game, and hardcore gamers will have a reason to keep playing due to the avatar/disciple feature. Even though we saw a pre-alpha build of the game, it was bug free and incredibly fun. The developers are excited about the game and it shows in everything about the game, from the levels, to the creatures, to the slightly drunken ramblings of certain network engineers. Definitely keep your eyes open " |
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Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:18 pm |
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Calandryll_UXO
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Austin |
1) No guild system? This means that they have alienated all established hardcore player guilds from even thinking about setting up in and paying for this game.
-We have guilds. 
2) Single-player Ultima CRPG fans arent going to fall for this. I dont know how stupid these designers are, but I for one will never pay monthly for a single player experience. Not even. Not gonna happen.
-I think its important to clear up what we are talking about. We aren’t saying this game is a single player game with a monthly fee. What we are saying is that we are talking aspects of single player games and working them into a MMORPG. Single player games have a LOT of really good ideas in them that can be incorporated into MMORPGs. This is especially important because UXO is so heavily influenced by the original Ultima single player games. But, this game is a MMORPG through and through.
3) Missing features isnt very competitive. Everquest 2 is far more attractive IMO. But that's just me. EQ2 (and a few other upcoming MMORPGs) have far more features and although I understand that this game might be specialized in quest variety, ect, like I said before, I am not going to pay monthly for a single-player experience. Forget it. This game is missing everything. Are they just trying to attract Ultima Online userbase and forget about everybody else? Probably not, but still: Why would I bother paying for this game when certain other MMORPGs will be a much better experience.
-More does not always equal better. One of the biggest problems with these games right now is they often have way too many features at launch, none of which are very deep and often have major problems and/or are very repetitive. We want to create a good group of core systems, all of which are very deep and a lot of fun. Then, over time, we can add more systems, each having the same depth as the original.
4) Action CRPGs. I am disappointed by how many of these are forthcoming at the exclusion of traditional CRPGs. It makes me mad!
-While it’s true that our combat is very action oriented, this game is an RPG, probably more so than many other games. Allowing you to make choices in the adventure system instead of just following a script and then rewarding you based on those choices is a huge role-playing tool. Along with the rich lore of the Ultima series and the Ultima virtues, the opportunities for role-playing are nearly endless!
_________________
-Jonathan "Calandryll" Hanna
Lead Designer, Ultima X: Odyssey |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:25 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I stand corrected. The game looks more positive to me now. 
I can see why having deeper gameplay would be better at the expense of shallow but broad features. I hope someday someone will spend enough time and money on an MMORPG where we can have both broad set of features and amazing depth. Of course i could be wrong, but it seems to me like publishers are pushing more for getting releases out sooner instead of taking the time to make the experience better in the first place? I guess the only 'perfect' MMORPG would be a heavily-funded non-profit project? That way they could spend as much time as they want on features and not have to worry about money. (But thats something that is never going to happen.) |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:05 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Unless i win the lottery tomorrow... or gain a large unexpected inheritance...
(If i had $50 million, i would spend $40 million on making a dream game. And it would be exclusively single-player, heh.)
< Ammon prays for an A.I. miracle >
EDIT -- holla^2, sorry for not replying, i didnt see this thread until now! so as for my answer:
These are the minimum features of my dream MMO:
-- everything
Woohoo! (j/k)
Seriously, if they would add crafting, housing, land ownership, guild warfare, PvP options, beer and pretzels, more realism, and women that perform shoulder-rubs for free, i would indeed be playing that game. |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:09 pm |
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Calandryll_UXO
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Austin |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
I stand corrected. The game looks more positive to me now.
I can see why having deeper gameplay would be better at the expense of shallow but broad features. I hope someday someone will spend enough time and money on an MMORPG where we can have both broad set of features and amazing depth. Of course i could be wrong, but it seems to me like publishers are pushing more for getting releases out sooner instead of taking the time to make the experience better in the first place? I guess the only 'perfect' MMORPG would be a heavily-funded non-profit project? That way they could spend as much time as they want on features and not have to worry about money. (But thats something that is never going to happen.)
The great thing about these games is that they are ongoing, supported by a Live team once the game ships. So we'll be able to add more and more features, with the same depth as the originals, as the game progresses. Having said that, the game will be a heck of a lot of fun with the features we do have the day it ships too!
_________________
-Jonathan "Calandryll" Hanna
Lead Designer, Ultima X: Odyssey |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:48 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Yep, thats why i like MMOs. I like the fact that the development doesnt stop on release day, that it continues with a whole team indefinitely. The game develops continually. That means that the adventure never ends -- almost.
Another thing i enjoy is the sheer size of these worlds, and the many things that you can do in them. Like in DAOC, i was a solo-er elven eldritch that specialized in void magic. I loved the wide spaces and the long journeys. The journeys remind me of a time when i was only ten years old, reading my first serious fiction ever, called The Hobbit. The heroes tale, the long journey, the dragon beyond the distant Misty Mountains and the dreadful vast forest of Mirkwood that must be crossed. The danger of beasts and the excitement of change. Those things gave me, a ten year old, an enchanting feeling of adventure and the journey, the long heroic trek, that i still feel in these games. I think the whole point of these games is what i just described.
btw, how big is your gameworld going to be?
EDIT -- so my real love for these games are the many things that can be done. the more things i can do in these worlds, the better! in single-player crpgs as well as online, i always like the feeling i get in the beginning, when a whole world is open for me to explore, many things to do and see. i guess thats why i like morrowind so much, and still play it even until now, a year later. as long as there are more things to do, i am interested. when nothing else can be done, the game, for me, is over. |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:06 pm |
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Calandryll_UXO
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 31
Location: Austin |
quote:
Originally posted by Ammon777
btw, how big is your gameworld going to be?
EDIT -- so my real love for these games are the many things that can be done. the more things i can do in these worlds, the better! in single-player crpgs as well as online, i always like the feeling i get in the beginning, when a whole world is open for me to explore, many things to do and see. i guess thats why i like morrowind so much, and still play it even until now, a year later. as long as there are more things to do, i am interested. when nothing else can be done, the game, for me, is over.
The world is pretty big. We have 56 maps, many of which are quite large. What really separates Alucinor (that's the name of UXO's world) from other games though is that the maps are very, very detailed. Wait until you see the density of some of the forests and the detail in some of the ruins!
I like lots of breadth (which is what you are talking about) in games too, but I also like a lot of depth. For example, one of my favorite games is Star Craft. Truth is, that game (with only 3 races, a dozen or so units per race, and only two resources) is pretty straight-forward and doesn't have a ton of features. But, you can combine and use those features in so many ways that you learn something new almost every time you play it! Another good example is chess. Chess has a very limited number of pieces and moves. But there are literally thousands of books about playing chess because the game is so deep!
_________________
-Jonathan "Calandryll" Hanna
Lead Designer, Ultima X: Odyssey |
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Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:26 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Kinda like the current game im playing, Etherlords2!  |
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:00 am |
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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
I actually got into the Ultima games due to UO...and I'm looking forward to UX:O. I am also humbly honored to have a lead designer stoping by our little forum. Thanks for the great insight into UX:O Calandryll |
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:47 am |
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Gravel
Village Dweller
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 16
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Callandryll,
quote:
What really separates Alucinor (that's the name of UXO's world) from other games though is that the maps are very, very detailed. Wait until you see the density of some of the forests and the detail in some of the ruins!
Can i make a reference to Gothic2 with this remark ? Because that is truely one of the most detailed RPG i have ever played.
And can we pleassssssssssssssssssse have somekind of ETA of a Beta1, 2, 3, 4, etc and release date ? I am one of the old guys who played Ultima 1 on his ATARI 600 (yup, that old) and i am DYING to play this game !
I am very atracted to the whole concept of Ultima and the fact that (finally) i can play a MMORPG were i am NOT forced to seek a group, but solo whenever I want and group when I want to do so.....
Hope we can get an answer on this |
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Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:30 pm |
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