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Chromanin Found
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RPGDot Forums > Gothic - General

Author Thread
Wulf
The Shepherd
The Shepherd




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England
   

@999999999, yes i know the horn details, (but not the code data)

Please do not misunderstand me, but it is a bit sad for me to know that maybe the solution to this puzzle, can worked out using non in-game methods, but i am well aware that some players will find their own methods of finding a solution under the circumstances.
Going off what you say, it sounds as i always suspected, the the prime trigger is near the start of the game, ch-1 (which quest/quests)? and the release trigger later on in ch-5 (where)? but even then it will be interesting to find out what the actual sequence of events are, by all means carry on, - - oh! - - and er' - - keep us informed, - then "maybe Wulf can go home with own ulu-mulu"
then can get some sleep.
Post Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:45 pm
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Uocjat
High Emperor
High Emperor




Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 706
Location: deep in the dungons of area 51
   

i had a really strange idea .. i remeber playing morrowind once some time a go and there was a quest or something where you had to go to some placebut it was in a cave that you could only enter at dawn and dusk .. any other time of day there was this big clam thing blocking the way .. could time of day have anything to do whit our quest here ? either the cave or blowing the horn at a serten time ? .. just an idea
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Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtsy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod
are, the olny imprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and
lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. the rset can be a
total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.
tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey
lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Post Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:14 pm
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Grand Mage




Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
   

I'm not offeneded but utterly amazed that I thoroughly explained that there is NO quest...it is not there, there is no code, no calls to hidden code...NADA, but his thread lives on.

Lemme explain what I do for a living. I take software and BREAK it to it's very core. I have access to code that would make you do a back flip...some of which I wrote, that can analyze ANYTHING the computer does, or could possibly do.

I'm talking binary level...1's and 0's that can be analyzed and brought under a microscope of attention. The algos can run permutations that can break ANY code with enough time. But there is NADA hidden in Gothic's mystical Chromanin quest....because it does not exist. Smell the coffee folks, it is time to wake up.

Others with good knowledge and know how to use the SDK have stated point blank...it does not exist...period. My JOB is to find hidden calls in software...trust me...it ain't there.

I love Wulf like a brother, but he is mistaken. And WM is a scammer IMHO, but that does'nt matter at all. I got to play this great game again...no harm, no foul

I feel like I just told a 4 year old that Santa died of VD...but folks, WM has played you bigtime.

I can now hear the believers saying that WM did not come back because he died in a tragic accident or some such crap, so we will never know the truth. I KNOW the truth...it ain't there people, never was.
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:17 am
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titus
Survivor of Hell
Survivor of Hell




Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Standing at the Hell mouth
   

I am mpre interested in this part of the code now?
Can someone find to what this point? it could tell a lot more about the horn. Iu might just be a student IT but I do understand enough code probably do understand it
flags = ITEM_MISSION;

value = 9;
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:56 am
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999999999
Village Leader
Village Leader




Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

@Wulf: Sorry for making you sad but I think what I said is interesting expecially for you because I FOUND THE CODE FOR THE PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION OF THE HORNE BUT NOT THE CODE THAT MAKES YOU BLOW IT!!! I speak about a mistery! So only you who are playing hard with it can discover what it does.

@Belivers: I don't want to deceive you but I worked on my "TheRiddle Mod" and I don't know how but after having read book 5 I haven't found the corpse. But probably it's my fault with the code because I know more C++ programming than Phoenix (g1script language) and I think I have made something wrong with the code. But I have kept a savegame and I'll search.

@Uriziel: I'm very happy to see an expert in data encrypting and cracking.I hope that you have tried hard to crack gothic before saying that nothing exists but I'm pretty sure that you did, even if I saw gothic.exe disassemblied and it was thousands of pages of assembly code. I understood nothing!
Maybe you could help me about the horn?

I'll proceed with my work on the modding and on the SDK. Good Luck!
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:07 am
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999999999
Village Leader
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

@titus:
Sorry you wrote while I was writing too.
i think flags = ITEM_MISSION is very important because it means that the horn is about a mission but I'm still looking to find out which mission and what you have to do. Honestly I hope Wulf discovers this before me.
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:12 am
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Wulf
The Shepherd
The Shepherd




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England
   

@ Rasmuslarsen,
Everything you have said is right-on, logical and correct, we are getting closer.

@Uriziel,
Hang on in there, stay cool, just sit back and watch how this mistery unfolds, you will become one of the "enlightened" - you will be amazed, you will (almost) be lost for words when it happens, you will have to brace yourself (hold onto something strong) as one day soon, an image will appear from this thread onto your screen.
I am not angry at your words, and one day you will come to terms with the facts, the truth.

@titus,
Value=9 is as you know, the transaction value.

@999999999,
Only pc-hero uses the horn in the game, you might like to check for any "links" (in the data) for these, compiled animation data HUMANS-S_HORN_S0.MAN - - or/and
HUMANS-S_HORN_S1.MAN - - or/and
the actual .wav sound - - TRUMPET_01.WAV

These can of course be played in marvin 'play anim' - 'play sound'
The secret to find is, where to sound the horn.
Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:56 pm
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999999999
Village Leader
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

FOUND in B_Orc_Item.d : this is what I understood about B_Orc_ItemHorn():
It is called when an orc wants to use the horn:
The orc is able to blow the horn only if she has it in his inventory(logically)
if the orc has the weapon in his hand he puts it away.
if the orc isn't interacting with another npc in the game he blows the horn.
code:

//######################################################################################
// item: Alarmhorn
func void B_Orc_ItemHorn()
{
   PrintDebugNpc( PD_TA_FRAME,"B_Orc_ItemHorn" );
   if ( Npc_HasItems( self, ItMiAlarmhorn ) )
   {
      //evtl. Waffe wegpacken
      if ( Npc_HasReadiedWeapon( self ) )
      {
         AI_RemoveWeapon( self );
      };
   
      AI_SetWalkmode( self, NPC_WALK );
   
      if ( Npc_GetBodyState( self ) != BS_ITEMINTERACT )
      {
         AI_UseItemToState( self, ItMiAlarmhorn, 1 );
      };
      AI_UseItemToState( self, ItMiAlarmhorn, -1 );
   };

};




FOUND in TestOrc.d:
I found a lot of "Orcx" but I think they're only tests. If you want you can
insert them with Marvin. Orc11 is interesting because he has got the horn in the
inventory. Only Orc9,Orc10,Orc11 and Orc12 have got npctype=NPCTYPE_GUARD.
You can find orcs 9 and 10 at waypoint ORC_GUARD_SLEEP. Orc 12 is at wp
ORC_BRIDGE_02. Finally Orc11 is at wp OW_ORC_BRIDGE_GUARD.
They are only tests but I found that Orc11 and Orc12 are really inserted
in the world. But I'm not completely sure because there's so much code to check!
code:

instance Orc11( ORC_TESTTYPE )
{   
   //    primary data
   name    =   "Orc_11";
   guild    =   GIL_ORCWARRIOR;
   npctype =   NPCTYPE_GUARD;
   level    =   10;
   voice    =   6;

   //    abilities
   attribute[ATR_STRENGTH] =      100;
   attribute[ATR_DEXTERITY] =      50;
   attribute[ATR_MANA_MAX] =      0;
   attribute[ATR_MANA] =         0;
   attribute[ATR_HITPOINTS_MAX] =   99;
   attribute[ATR_HITPOINTS] =      99;

   //-------- visuals --------
   
   Mdl_SetVisual      (self,"orc.mds");
   Mdl_SetVisualBody   (self,"Orc_BodyWarrior",DEFAULT,DEFAULT,"Orc_Head", DEFAULT,  DEFAULT,-1);
   
   B_Scale( self );

   // Talente   
   
   
   //-------- inventory --------                                   
   CreateInvItem (self, ItMw2hOrcAxe04);
   EquipItem( self, ItMw2hOrcAxe04);
   CreateInvItem (self,ItMiAlarmhorn); <--- HERE'S THE HORN IN THE INVENTORY
      
   // FAI
   fight_tactic = FAI_ORC;
   
   //-------------Daily Routine-------------
   daily_routine = Rtn_Orc11;
};



FOUND in ZS_Orc_ObserveIndruder.d:
Finally there's the file that is driving me crazy:
There's so much code and I don't understand much! I can't provide the whole file, as it's very big,
you have to check by yourselves.
I think the file is about what the "orc guards" have to do when "somebody" enters the orc city
and the function I have provided here is interesting in my opinion because at a certain moment is
calls B_Orc_ItemHorn, this func is probably called by all "orc guards"(?) but remember that
B_Orc_ItemHorn checks for the presence of the horn in the inventory. Logically only if there is it the orc
can blow it.
code:

func void ZS_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder()
{
   PrintDebugNpc( PD_ORC_FRAME, "ZS_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder" );

   // Perceptions beim beobachten...
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSDAMAGE,       B_Orc_AssessDamage );
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_DRAWWEAPON,          B_Orc_DrawWeapon );
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSOTHERSDAMAGE,   ZS_Orc_WatchFight );
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSMURDER,      B_Orc_AssessMurder );
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSDEFEAT,      B_Orc_AssessDefeat );
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSCASTER,      B_Orc_AssessSomethingEvil );   
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSMAGIC,         B_AssessMagic );   
   Npc_PercEnable( self, PERC_ASSESSTHREAT,      B_Orc_AssessSomethingEvil );   
   

   self.aivar[AIV_OBSERVEINTRUDER] = 0;
   self.aivar[AIV_WARNTARGET] = 0;

      PrintDebugNpc( PD_ORC_FRAME, "B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder: Waechter sieht Player" );
   if ( Npc_GetDistToNpc( self, other ) > 900  &&  Npc_GetAttitude( self, other ) != ATT_FRIENDLY )
   {
      PrintDebugNpc( PD_ORC_FRAME, "B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder: Waechter tutet ins Horn -> TORÖÖÖÖ!" );
      B_Orc_ItemHorn();
   };
   Npc_SendPassivePerc( self, PERC_ASSESSWARN, self, self );
};



Notice that I have provided only the code activated if an "Orc Guard" sees an intruder because only
it calls B_Orc_ItemHorn.
I also think that the horn is blown only if the distance between you and the "Guard" is > "900" and if
the guard's attitude towards you is not FRIENDLY, perhaps if you don't have UluMulu.
Also notice that ZS_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder is called by B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder() which I didn't provide
because it has little more than nothing, almost only the call to ZS_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder().
B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder is called by B_Orc_ObserveIntruder which calls B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder only
if the observer is an orc guard and humans are differently judged by different type of orcs.
Remeber that B_OrcGuard_ObserveIntruder is activated previously related with the senses of the orcs.

@Wulf:
I have discovered so many things about the horn but I still don't know how to use it.
I'll try to make the orc guard blow it but I don't know if blown by a human it does something.
Now it's your turn. The "Mistery of the Horn" is now only yours.

Sorry for the enormous post: moderators will hate me and kill me with a war crossbow.
My next post will be much smaller and about Chromanin.

### Not a game, a masterpiece. In my game I'll never be able to have such things. Wow!!! ###
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Gothic, Simply the best RPG ever created!
Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:03 pm
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999999999
Village Leader
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

What a funny game! I have just discovered something incredible!
In the previous post I wrote that The Orc Guards are Orc11 & Orc12 and that Orc11 has the horn. I was right but those NPCs are never inserted in the game because they're only tests. To see the behaviour of the Orc11 with the horn I wrote STARTUP_WORLD_Orcs (); somewhere in Startup.d, so I enabled the initialization of Ork11 & Orc12. The funny fact is that they appeared at waypoint OW_ORC_BRIDGE_GUARD as I had seen but Orc11, who is a test NPC, speaks like a human guard, with a human voice! When I dragged my UluMulu he said "Put that weapon away" ... However he didn't blow the horn but he has it in the inventory.
I'll work on this thing and I know Wulf is working on it too.

___The last day of the year, Maybe the Stranger will give us as a gift his presence___
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:22 pm
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999999999
Village Leader
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

A Happy New Year!!!
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Post Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:45 am
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Wulf
The Shepherd
The Shepherd




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England
   

@999999999,

And a happy new year to you,

Thanks for the code info, i managed to hear that voice from orcs 11+12 (no cheats) - just draw the weapon (ulu-mulu) near the two orcs and quickly put it away, then the ulu-mulu state takes over (non-hostile) instantly. Still non the wiser re: cromanin, but this info' was interesting in another way, at first these test models appear to be just that (not used) but 'hey' they contain 'overlays' that are 'called to' this means that they are "passively" used in the game, if this is true (i'm no programmer) then the old man is indeed waiting for a "wakening call" which i know is *instantaneous*. Will put this "mystery of the horn" to one side for now, just keeping the horn in the inventory should be enough to trigger whatever? - maybe?
Post Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:11 am
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999999999
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

@Wulf: I'm not an expert in this sort of things but surely Chromanin is well-hidden in the game code, obviously not in the scripts, where you can find the normal quest. About the horn there's something strange: I searched the orc town without cheating but I didn't find an orc with the horn in his inventory. I have only seen Orc11 inserted cheating or modifying the scripts with the horn, he didn't blow it but I think there's a lot of commented code as these are only tests and for me it's difficult to find where and when the horn is used. Half of the code I provided is contained in test scripts. I activated them and Orc11 appears as 'Orc11' (the name you see), he has the horn but doesn't blow it.
I'm getting tired of this thing and also it's strange that the horn is defined in MissionItems5.d as ITEM_MISSION but you can find it in chapter 1.
If you want to continue searching you can but I'm beginning to think that the horn 'mission' is like sitting on the chairs.

About CHROMANIN this night I thought about it a lot and there are some questions I'd like to ask you because it's been a while and I don't remember if you have written them in this thread.

1) When you found the old man is it true that you had only 3/4 books?
I was thinking about it because WM said he read 5 books. Maybe the
the Stranger can be found even if you haven't read all the books?
2) I still don't understand if the room he was in is near the fog dungeon.
You spoke about a room on the cliff overlooking the sea. Was it in one of
the two green ledges on those mountains. Which one?
3) I think that when you have behaved correctly you also have to follow a
physical path to the room. Pherhaps it enables only if you walk in the right
zones in the right order.
4) I think that for this quest the important thing to do is behaving like a good
human, not an orc but there are also triggers hidden in the quests you do.
If not it wouldn't be necessary do do something to find the old man alive
and I would have found him making "New Game" and reading the books,
avoiding all the missions. Do you agree?

I'm also thinking about something about the encryption of the alternate ending. I'll make you know...

P.S. Have you read about my work with the SDK? I haven't found the corpse!
(But I'm pretty sure I did something wrong with the code)
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Post Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:21 pm
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Wulf
The Shepherd
The Shepherd




Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 2312
Location: North/West.England
   

@999999999, your help is very welcomed,

1. It's so long ago i can barely remember, i was "not aware" i had all the books, i can't be 100%sure, every now and again i would stop and read some of the books in the inventory, they made no sense to me, so i ran around in the game not even bothered about them, wolverine_men only said "after *collecting* all the books" ?

2.Yes, coming out from the trees and running along the top of the cliffs away from the fog tower it would be impossible for you to miss the wooden stage and steps, you can see the steps from quite a distance, you could walk down the steps from the grassy cliff-top, also from the stage, you could walk down to ground level. I have made a screenshot and "white-lined" approximately where the stairs were. see here: - - http://imagehost.biz/ims/pictes/177975.jpg

3.You could try every command and trick, but there is absolutely no possibility that you will see anything, it is un-rendered, i have tried many times, you can walk in any direction, there are no "spur" waypoint lines. I think the old mans spawning point will be a fixed x,y,z co-ordinate, but then there would have to be a base = 0 (to be able to walk on the surface)
There is only one small, almost undetectable "crack" - just a dark mark on the twisty passage's wall, there are many other similar marks and its easy to go past it, you would not be aware that you could walk through it!, this is why it takes so long to find it, however, once you have found it and it it enabled (by the quest triggers) you will remember where it is and it looks slightly different than normal, there is a short distance along/inside the opening/crack till you come into the cave/room. The stage/landing beyond the cave has chests, i counted at least 3. he let's you help yourself after speaking with him.

4. Absolutely agree, because you are plunged into the game with nothing, its up to pc-hero to "question" the morality of all tasks and dialogue options, Baloro's mission for example "takes you for a mug" but that is not immoral or agressive, these triggers are most likely "accumulative"
- - get one wrong and you can say goodbye to the old man, yet iv'e tried all ways and it makes no difference, because i have no idea what the triggers are, we are left with only the help of wolverine_men's most welcome hints, but even they seem elusive.

5. Be aware this is not an alternate ending, its "in" the game, you can carry on in the game as normal, after you see him, - - i did, but i did not complete that first game.

6. The corpse, just a simple peasant, he's just a "filler" a dead body, as a sign you have failed, but you are not to know of this, as you get a few goodies to fool you that it's completed, at that point it will be entered in your journal and you would never know the difference.
Post Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:16 pm
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999999999
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Mantova, Italy
   

Hey @Wulf: Sorry for writing so late but I've spent the last few days looking in the deep of gothic scripts. Now for me this game hasn't secrets any more. <- no, this game will always have secrets for everyone

I have some things to tell because I have just read again the thread from the beginning:

0) Thanks for the screenshot. It helped me a lot and now I and my friends (there are a lot of people I know who are trying Chromanin quest) know where to search if we think we have found the riddle

1) Where is Wolverine_man?, I waited to see him again in this thread for months and now, even if Christmas has passed, he doesn't write. I would like him to write even something like "I see you've failed miserably" but I'd like to know his opinion about why we still haven't found the old man even with WM's clues. However he's free to do what he wants... but he's the one who succeeded and he knows how to find him. Perhaps the programmers told him something and he can't say it clearly. In every case he has got my respect because a lot of people shouted 'Hoax' before having listened carefully to him.

(I suspect that he reads our progresses very often but waits to write)

2) Wolverine_man gave two big clues (-these words contain more than 2-):
quote:

The one who was banished knows more than you realise. Coax him into revealing some info. Gothic 3 will shed more light on his treachery. He knows the answer, but can you ask the right question?
### and ###
I shall intervene now very briefly(though much against my own will) and declare that my last post contained two clues about the banished one. In order to resolve all arguments about his identity I shall advise u to refer to the Gothic 3 interview transcript. U can find it's english translation on this web site.



1st of all a question: He writes "gothic3 interview transcript" .. What exactly does he refer to?. Where can I find it?, on this website there are a lot of interviews about G3.
2nd. Can you imagine who 'the banished one' is? In my opinion he could be Ur-Shak, Xardas or Lee. For Lee I'm not sure about which his "treachery" is.
Of course the game's big and I haven't thought about all the NPCs.
About him we know two certain things:
- He has been banished by some people or a group he was a part of
- He is a traitor (he's been banished because of this)
3rd. I KNOW FOR SURE THAT IF WE UNDERSTOOD WHO THIS MAN (OR ORC) IS AND WE MANAGED TO ASK HIM THE RIGHT QUESTIONS WE WOULD MAKE BIG PROGRESSES IN THE RIDDLE QUEST.

3) Now that I have seen the picture of the cave place some new questions have begun to wake me up at night. They're about the 'encryption techniques' the programmers used to hide the cave. What you said months ago to some non-believers is true: we have to look for something which seems normal and not for encrypted calls or something like this. I agree with you but we're not expert programmers and we could be wrong. However I think that hiding some data as big as the mesh of an entire cave, wooden steps and textures in the executable is not what they did, as it would be too simple for someone like Uriziel (@URIZIEL, Where have you gone?) to find it. About the x,y,z coords instead of the waypoint I agree with you. I think the cave is 'composed' with 'pieces' of world we know and the game uses regularly (I'll search textures and meshes). The old man is like the one you saw dead? Was he wearing a robe or an armor? However I'm sure that that model is already used in the game, at least as a test model. It's easy to hide data in the executable if you only make 'references' to objects and memory positions, not strings (I'M, WHO KNOWS PRETTY NOTHING, WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND THEM WITH A DISASSEMBLER, AND I TRIED). The dialogues texts can be encrypted strings; yes, they can be encrypted and what i wrote before in bold is false! (Sorry I was a little drunk, ), but encrypting a string is easy, if you don't want to make a masterpiece in data encryption and Uriziel...(hope he searched well, as I don't know a word of assembly,I hate that language because ordinary humans can't understand it! , W C++!!!).
The dialogues can even be encrypted in 1.08h compiled scripts files with an exadecimal editor and believe me, I tried and it works. (Note:I have the Italian version, which is like the English one, I have 1.08j).
But here or there some code must call those things and put them together(May the Riddle awaken! ).
Last and worst thing. The spoken dialogues. What can you remember about what the man said and the player said? I hope not too much because waves are large files and encrypting them in an executable is pretty noticeable.

Wow, what a game! This is my longest post because the other very big contained a lot of code (Cut&Pasted). Now I'll go to bed and I'll ponder during the night about this new facts.

Hope not to have made you bored and wish you good luck in searching

P.S. What about the switches at Ur-Shak's ruins. Are they about the quest or not? What is the story of the switch that works only at night and the two different golems in different chapters? Once I found a golem (ch5?,I don't remember).

Thanks for your help!, as the player would say to Diego


@Wolverine_man: Se ci sei, batti un colpo!
(Trying to translate it,...::: ##If you are here, knock on something## sorry but it is an ideomatic sentence)
KAMON, don't be shy and answer!

WE'RE GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THE SOLUTION...
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Post Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:40 pm
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Uriziel
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Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
   

Let me explain , BRIEFLY, the technnique I used to come to my decision....that this does not exist.

We took the actual binary data, one's and zero's and recompiled the game. That was then compared to a normal disasembly.......on a supercomputer for nearly 2 hours.......which is a lifetime at the speeds the SC runs at.

My program looks for anomalies between binary code and the game code.....which will tell you mainly one thing.......whether the code hides encrypted data. In this case, none was found at all. If a portion of code was encrypted, MY recompiled version would not include the correct algorythm, so data would be different....does that make sense?

If anomalies had been found, we "might" would have taken the time to try and break the encryption, but there were zero anomalies.
_________________
Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?

Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World.
Post Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:21 am
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