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Althalus
Village Dweller
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 10
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Okay, its pretty clear what an rpg is in terms of pen and paper games. But what about computer rpgs?
I would assert that Dues Ex and Gothic are RPGs. But others on the forum would say they aren't. Also issues like, can you call DiabloII an RPG and not Dues ex? Why is Blades of Darkness brought up when people are asking for similar games to Gothic? To some is Gothic merely an action game like Blades of Darkness, while for others they are completly different games?
Computer games are so limited you really can't do any "roleplaying" in the pen and paper sense of term. So I'm interested. What defines a computer RPG? What gameplay elements should (or shouldn't) be present?
[ This Message was edited by: Althalus on 2002-01-15 03:23 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Althalus on 2002-01-15 03:57 ] |
Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:22 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Today is term RPG used for many different games.
So main signs is
- your character is somehow developing....
- there are NPCs and you can interact with them...
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- nonlinearity, big world, not only fighting but logical and other quests, creating character, choosing from many different "occupations"... >> not so important for definition...
Why we speak about f. e. Blade of Darkness when someone asks for game similar to Gothic? Because Blade is similar to Gothic. It is not RPG, but Gothic is very action-based RPG and Gothic is nearest to it in this fighting, way you are looking on world, graphics etc.
PC is something else then paper, so it is not sgrange, that PC-RPGs are different then paper-RPGs.
Also todays game mix many sorts of games together (and I like it). So it is sometime difficult to find pure RPG without actions and advenures things.
But it is same in other type of games...
[ This Message was edited by: Danicek on 2002-01-15 04:20 ] |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:17 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Agreed RPG stands for "Role Playing Game" and no specification for P&P, PC, Board or other enviroments.
For me RPG's is about the following.
1. You have to identify youself into a fiction world. P&P try to describe the worlds CRPG and board games show them. The CRPG 1.person view is for me the ultimative gameworld experience.
2. You need a character(s) to identify you with in the new world, which you can develop and equip to stand against the challenges the world offers. Some like this simple, others can't get enough choises regarding posibilities for you character(s). Ad&d may seem advanced for P&P players to keep track of all the numbers, but for CRPG players it's a simple system, with allmost no choises regarding development of your characters, there are thankfully more sofisticated development systems out there, for the deeper players.
3. We like good stories, to follow, but on the other hand we want our freedom to have the impact on the story we want! So many branches of story evolvments and endings is a good RPG option. P&P games here mostly got an edge because the DM can adjust almost every situation the players go for. However many CRPG try (and getting better) to have many solutions and options open for solving a problem/quest.
4. We want free world movement, and the ability to meet side stories/quests. It's okay with some locked doors for good reasons, and mystically areas, which will be revealed later in the game depending on the development of the story.
5. We expect to interact with other characters/monsters/NPC's regarding informations/quests/shopping/socialising.
6. Let us admit that the combat/spell system is very important for many players. some like realtime others turnbased or a combination of both! Turnbased is the most "correct" RPG experience, giving you the responsibility for every move you make, but the others can be satisfying too.
Good P&P games can cover all the requirements, but CRPG's have a hard time to fullfill them all. eventhough many annoying numbbers are handled by the PC, it still fails to react on the unexpected. The good side is a visual representation of the gameworld.
Scaling from 1-5, 5 is best:
Deux Ex:
1. First person viewport, very good gameworld experience. (5)
2. Character development. (3) Quite simple development system compared to others.
3. Story and evolvment. (4/2) 4 for story but 2 for possible impact on story.
4. Freedom. (2) very linear.
5. Interaction (3), some but seen much better.
6. Combat/spell system (2) Shooter game only.
Blade of darkness:
1. First person viewport (5)
2. Character development (2) almost none.
3. Story & evolvment (2/1) !!!!
4. Freedom. (2)
5. Interaction (2). almost no one to interact with.
6. Combat/Spell (2) Shooter game.
Gothic:
1. First person viewport (5)
2. Character development (3) simple but actually quite good
3. Story & evolvment (4/4)
4. Freedom. (5)
5. Interaction (4.5)
6. Combat/spells (3) Realtime!
Diablo 2:
1. 3rd person view (3)
2. Character development (3) very simple regarding character skills, but very complex regarding items!
3. Story/evolvment (2/1) The cut-scenes are amazing though.
4. Freedom (3). Limited!
5. Interaction (2). No really interesting NPC's etc.
6. Combat/spells (3) Realtime.
Diablo seems to hit a very low score regarding the RPG elements, but many many people like the game, Yes but not for it's RPG elements, but for many other good reasons! |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:02 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Nice Michael C...
This is description good enough for "Vocabulary of game styles" :grin:
[ This Message was edited by: Danicek on 2002-01-15 07:24 ] |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:24 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
Action Shooter
Adventure CRPG Hack'n'Slash
Strategy
CRPG Shooter: Deus Ex
CRPG Adventure: Wizardy Nemisis
CRPG Hack'n'Slash: Diablo
CRPG Strategie: Jagged Alliance 2
These are the the extremes. True c-rpgs have a good mix, for example:
Wizardry 6+7: cool story, solving riddles, dungeon crawling, strategic turn based fighting, a great spell system, humor, 1.st person view ...
Hx |
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Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:48 pm |
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Guest
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I wouldn't call Deus-EX a CRPG shooter.
No way, It's way more than that. People who haven't played it yet might get the wrong idea. Just because it's in a first person view doesn't make it a shooter. |
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Sat Jan 19, 2002 11:43 pm |
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Shrapnel
Rocket Scientist
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 1325
Location: Newark, NJ |
Dues Ex a shooter? More like a sleeper...it put you to sleep with all that skulking around crap (bah)
btw 1st person view is when you only see the weapon in front of you (A la, Half-Life, Quake, Doom)
3rd person is that behind the back view
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Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:20 pm |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
This is the way I see it:
RPG (Role Playing Game): Table top with dice and graph paper. Turn based with heavy stats. A dungeon master that runs the game with 2 or more players exploring.
CRPG (Computer Role Playing Game): A computer game that attempts to 'simulate' the experience of an RPG, with the computer taking the place of the dungeon master. Also turn based.
Diablo is NOT a CRPG; it's an action adventure.
By nature, a true CRPG should be turn based or at the very least have 'phased' combat. Wizardry 8 is a good example of a true CRPG in my opinion, as is Wizards and Warriors. While not as strong overall as Wizardry 8, the voice descriptions as you enter various dungeons really mimic what a dungeon master does when playing table top.
[ This Message was edited by: Sir Markus on 2002-02-10 10:09 ] |
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Sun Feb 10, 2002 4:06 pm |
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