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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
| The Passion Of The Christ |
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Guess now you all already heard about the controversy surrounding this film. I personally can't wait to watch it. It will be out this week (Feb. 25th) in US. And here are some quotes i picked from early reviews that you can find at Rotten Tomatoes:
quote:
"The Passion of the Christ is an artistic expression of the faith, not the faith itself."
"The Passion of the Christ is not an attempt to depict the sufferings of Christ exactly as described in the New Testament....the film is an imaginative, at times poetic reflection on the meaning of the gospel story in light of sacred tradition and Catholic theology."
"...the story was filmed in Latin and Aramaic at all is worthy of note ...for the first time since the silent era, a cinematic Jesus is unencumbered by British-accented (or worse, American-accented) English, or by a European romance language, etc."
"...the single most overwhelming aspect of the scourging at the pillar remains its sheer savagery. No previous Jesus film has ever approached this level of brutal violence - in part because no previous film has ever focused so closely on the passion particularly."
"...'The Passion of the Christ' is a punishing film to behold. After setting the standard for bloody realism in 'Braveheart,' Gibson pushes it to the next level in his third film as a director. From the moment the first whip is cracked until the final nail of his crucifixion, every effort is made to capture the brutality of Jesus' torture."
"... I think you need to approach THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST as a story, a film, and it shouldn't be second-guessed with religious or political agendas. It stands as a work of art. It's almost certain to be the best film of 2004. It is the first Great Film of the 21st Century."
If you already watched the film, please put your comment in this thread.
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:45 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Oh please. As if it will be anything compared to Jesus Christ Super Star.
"The controversy" has been nothing but silly.
...
But I'll still probably see it. 
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:06 am |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
This flick has definitely been on my radar for the last year. Will be checking it out this week.
I find it funny that they used Latin & Aramaic. Christ obviously spoke Greek & Hebrew.
Should be an interesting flick though!!!
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:44 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
If its focused on his suffering then im not looking forward to seeing it...
EDIT -- in fact, im not seeing it all. not because i cant handle the gore (duh, i play CRPGs), but because i do not wish to see a hyped-up bloody version of the suffering of my Lord. |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:04 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
@Hexy - "The controversy" can sound very silly to you, but the whole thing still reflecting the condition and mentality on small part of the society.
What important for me is to see how Gibson conjures the atmosphere, acting, story and everything, and how he build up the catharsis for the movie.
@Ammon777 - we don't have to care about the violence; i want to see how good the movie is; in the end it could be sucks, who know? 
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:28 am |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I find it funny that they used Latin & Aramaic. Christ obviously spoke Greek & Hebrew.
I'm sorry but which part of that it is funny?
Little history lesson: The language of the people of Palestine shifted from Hebrew to Aramaic sometime between 721-500 B.C. Therefore, we know that Jesus, his disciples and contemporaries spoke and wrote in Aramaic. The message of Christianity spread throughout Palestine, Syria and Mesopotamia in this Semitic tongue. And Judea was one of the many Roman provinces (for the record they didn't speak Italian back then) that's where Latin comes in.
And yes can't wait for the movie.
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Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:15 pm |
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volcaneros
City Guard
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Minneapolis |
I'll be seeing it tonight at an advanced screening. I'll give you an update when I get home.
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Don't sweat petty things,
or pet sweaty things.
Turn $25 into $5225 |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:47 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
quote:
Originally posted by kengo2019
I find it funny that they used Latin & Aramaic. Christ obviously spoke Greek & Hebrew.
I'm sorry but which part of that it is funny?
Little history lesson: The language of the people of Palestine shifted from Hebrew to Aramaic sometime between 721-500 B.C. Therefore, we know that Jesus, his disciples and contemporaries spoke and wrote in Aramaic. The message of Christianity spread throughout Palestine, Syria and Mesopotamia in this Semitic tongue. And Judea was one of the many Roman provinces (for the record they didn't speak Italian back then) that's where Latin comes in.
And yes can't wait for the movie.
Well, I'll give you the Aramaic. But Latin? Anything Jesus quotes comes from the Old Testament. The bible was not translated in Latin till the around 400 AD by Jerome. 370 years after his Crucifixion. Also, a majority of texts written in Aramaic are the Gnostic writings that were thrown out of the bible around 350 – 400 AD. Most of these date later than the book of Revelation. The Alexandrian Greek Septuagint was widely used at the time of Christ. This is a Greek translation of the Hebrew old-testament. I really doubt he spoke Latin.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:50 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
@kengo
I'm guessing here that Latin language was put for characterization of Romans than anything else, since the story is about Jews and Romans I don't see how Greek would be a proper language, maybe for narrator purposes.
Remember "Pearl Harbor" big fuss that all the Japanese lines were spoken in Imperial language.
The big controversy here is that apparently after watching the movie the viewers might blame Israel for crucifixion of the Christ.
P.S. Liked your replay
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Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:26 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
@kengo
I'm guessing here that Latin language was put for characterization of Romans than anything else, since the story is about Jews and Romans I don't see how Greek would be a proper language, maybe for narrator purposes.
I see your point...I would agree about the Romans speaking Latin. I guess this is one of those issues/questions I have been trying to resolve for many years. I like reading anything about archaeology or text translations in the Palestine area. Still, I really want to understand when Jews spoke/read Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek and what exact parts of the old & new testament. Even looking at many Interlinear bibles and using concordances this is still something I don't have a complete grasp on. Most of the ones I have used only have Hebrew & Greek. But that is the problem with a text that is getting close to 3500 years old. The thing was written over 1500 years by 45 different authors and in 3 languages. Thus the languages thing, though not really necessary, is something I really want to understand. But, I see your view and you are right because we are talking about a movie with living people from that era. Not, just the Jews or writers of the text it is based off of.
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
...I don't see how Greek would be a proper language, maybe for narrator purposes.
What about Greek though? It was a common tongue. Jesus, the apostles, and later disciples wrote in Greek. That is what the surviving manuscripts that I have seen from this early church era are written in. The New Testament writings used Greek. Also, read this passage from the Gospel of John...
19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing
was
JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus
was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew,
and Greek, and Latin.
Now if Aramaic was the tongue of the Jews in question, then why did the above sign say Hebrew. Why are the writings of Jesus and his followers in Greek? Because they spoke Greek! This and the fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls and most really old copies of the Old Testemant are in Hebrew...even fragments dated to the era of Christ are in Hebrew...is why I think Hebrew was still common at this time...along with Aramaic.
Also read this scripture from the book of Revelation...
1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great
voice, as of a trumpet,
1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What
thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches
which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto
Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto
Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Notice how above passage uses the Greek terms "Alpha" and "Omega"?
Christ also quoted scripture from what many people believe to be the Septuagint(Greek) and quoted from Isaiah in the Old Testament.
Nonetheless, I really am excited to see this movie. It looks like a killer art-house flick. I just wasted my money at the theater on "Gospel of John". This was a really boring movie with narration the entire time. For classics I really dig the Anthony Hopkins flick "Peter & Paul", "Greatest Story Ever Told", and of course "Ten Commandments".
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:36 am |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
I can see you did quite a research, and I don't question the info (my wife knows the new (and probably the old) testament by heart).
Yes it's true:
1. The empire that influenced Christianity the most through its culture was Greek.
2. The language of culture and the lingua franca of the majority of people from Rome eastward was Greek.
3. The people who furnished the language in which the New Testament was circulated soon after its origin were the Greeks.
(Taking all this in account no one wonders why the New Testament was influenced by the Greek language, however we are talking about peasants here not the sages who were writing the story. Also the simple Legionaries were speaking Latin most likely)
But:
1. The language of the courts of law in the Roman Empire was Latin.
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Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:28 pm |
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volcaneros
City Guard
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Minneapolis |
Well language debate notwithstanding I saw the Passion last night. I'm still not sure how I feel about the whole thing. It was very well done and very poetic. I thought Mel took the right amount of creative liberties with the storytelling (not the story itself) to transpose the story onto a visual medium without becoming too fantastic or overwhelming.
As for the gore, it was quite graphic but never seemed to be out of place. This was an incredibly graphic event and I think that the movie captured that without glorifying it.
Like I said, I'm still processing the whole thing so I don't have a whole ton to say.
_________________
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Don't sweat petty things,
or pet sweaty things.
Turn $25 into $5225 |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:00 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Saw Passion of the Christ today.
Artistic, Brutal, Moving, Politically Incorrect, and very Deep is how I would sum it up.
I'd say about 70% of the movie stuck to the gospel accounts. Probably about 30% were artistic ideas to convey emotion and themes to add flair to the moving picture!
Cinematography, camera-angles, color-usage, score, and acting were all excellent. I guess some words in Aramaic must be close to Hebrew because I clearly could under stand Jesus & Messiah(Yeshua & Mishia?).
Costumes & Sets were excellent...Gladiator quality
Soundtrack is very excellent...very Middle Eastern with moving chants and stringed instruments.
Excellent use of cutting briefly to memories of Christ with the Apostles or Christ and his mother Mary. This was a relief for me, since it truly makes it a beautiful film rather than a long torture documentary.
The 2nd half of the movie is a brutally realistic depiction of the Savior’s scourging, journey to Golgotha, and Crucifixion. They show him scourged and flesh particles flying and splattering on the pavement. They show the drunken Romans gambling for his cloak. They even show the cross turned over with him hanging and bleeding to death so that they can bend the nails over on the backside of the cross. If you are a human being, this stuff will make you feel pain. I think this realism is appropriate, because it does not glorify or cheapen violence. (think the Hunted knife scene realism)
I think they way they depict the Veil of the Temple being rent asunder was a little over handed though. Seemed like the Temple practically split in two.
All in all I’d give this flick a 9.5 or a 10. It really sticks out in sea of sequels and politically correct cookie-cutter movies flooding the market. I hope Gibson makes his 30 million back and makes a few more ultra-realistic biblical movies!!!
My favorite scene is without a doubt Jesus the Carpenter making a table and explaining his design to his mother!
All of my atheist/agnostic friends who went with me thought it was an excellent film!
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:15 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
Good review Kengo,
It is amusing that from over two dozen reviews (+ & -) i had read, many reviewers drowning themselves with the focus on the violence; some talked almost nothing else (acting, cinematography, costumes, etc), just criticizing the violence!. What a perceptive and deep analysis. *sigh*.
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Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:44 pm |
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ShadowWolfe
Noble Knight
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 205
Location: In the northern mountains of the western continent. |
wow kengo ... after reading your review of the film ... i am highly anticipating it ... doubt it will be in theaters my way though ... so ill just buy the dvd
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:41 am |
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